Angling Charter Boats to be Decommissioned?

[steve good]

- Wurzel

 

As usual, you miss the point, Wurzel (well, you would wouldn't you).

 

In many parts of the UK where there were once loadsa cod, there are now a lot of fingerlings to 2 yr olds. That favourable stock has not yet spawned and if the Under and over 10s carry on fishing wherever, whenever they can, then we'll lose them before they can produce a stock which is at least 3 years old. CEFAS already has stated that they thought 95% of the 2006 'brood' would be caught before they spawn!!! It's absolute madness!

 

As for this separation between the 'rich' over 10s and 'poor(!)' under 10s, 'what the toss' do the cod care. Between you both, you will try to scoop up the lot!!!

 

Get another skipper, Barry will not work in the Solent where many experienced charter skips caught not a single large cod through the 2006/7 winter! 12 anglers per boat for perhaps 7000 angler hours each and not a single cod from the E Solent/Nab area. This year they have fared slightly better and that appears to be in the lap of the 'Cod Gods' rather than being a sign of a strong, sustainable mixed stock!

 

When will you guys accept that the ICES Divisions IVb - VIIa (most of England, Wales and the Irish Sea) cod stock is koofed!

 

Stop fishing for the young, promising, brood stock which will not reach maturity for at least another 1 - 2 years.

 

Makes me koofin' well sick to hear the bleating of commercial netsmen!

 

 

Hi H.A

 

Have you not heard about all these charter boats that land half a ton of cod fillets a trip, seems to me all you anglers just fillet and release

 

Thats where all the cod have gone

 

 

steve

[steve good]

Fish in the sea are not the property of anyone.

 

They are a public resource managed by the Government for the benefit of all.

 

Quota is permission to catch fish, it does not signify ownership of the fish in the sea.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/marine/fisheries/quota/anquota.htm

 

And quota cannot be owned.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/marine/fisheries/quota/anquota.htm

Although there is the possibility to challenge through the European Courts using established practice as the basis for establishing that quota is owned, that could open up a whole can of worms that might badly go against the interest of the fishing industry, allowing other stakeholder to challenge and perhaps bring down the system whereby over the years the stocks have become to be managed as though fish stocks are the property of the fishing industry alone.

 

No one really wants to go down that path, knowing that it could lead to collapse of a whole system whereby allocated quota is used as surety for loans, traded, leased and sold etc.

 

This could be endlessly debated (and is by top legal advisors, senior fisheries managers and governments, terrified of the whole edifice crumbling one day).

 

Hi Leon

 

For a commercial fishermen to fish for quoted fish stocks they had to prove that they were entilted to it by providing a hishory of their track record

 

The Government/Defra have allowed fishermen to buy and sell quota, Government/Defra have therefore been party to whats known has custom and practice.

 

And as you say it would open up a can of worms if a legal challenge was made by the commercials and I think they would win

 

steve

[steve good]

 

I only use about ten either they are all bloo@y useless or i am. Or.................

 

H A, Any thing decent landed around the solent area this year. We were considering try there for an on the ground cod but didn't know if we was to waste our time?

 

Hi Barry

 

The Solent is not really the best place for large cod, however it maybe to late in the season now but next year try a chart boat from Lymington and fish south of the Needles. This area was reknown for its really large cod 40lb plus, I do not know wether it still produces these large cod best phone one of the charter skippers pick one thats been around a long time he will know what I am on about and will have the best knownlegde and you will have the best chance of getting a big one

 

For summer time cod try an area known as "The Rips" it is along way out passed the Needles but produces lots of cod sometimes smaller ones sometimes large ones

 

steve

Edited February 9, 2008 by steve good

[steve good]

- Wurzel

 

I guess we'd be looking at around 100 tonnes each then, eh? (Don't include me in that, like many RSAs most of my cod go back; for conservation reasons .... I don't object to the odd dinner from deeply hooked fish. H.A.'s total for Sept - January '07/8: 41 codling caught to 7-12-0 and 31 returned, OK?)

 

Bit better than taking Whitby charter boat caught fish: 111 t

Commercial landings: 2535 t.

Combined total in a bad year 2646tonnes

 

% caught by charter boats ~ 4.2%

 

Again, I'll settle for a zero commercial catch (as recommended by CEFAS/ICES) and a 2 fish bag limit for RSAs until say a 5 year review of estimated stock.

 

 

Hi H.A

 

quote/ H.A.'s total for Sept - January '07/8: 41 codling caught to 7-12-0 and 31 returned, OK?)

 

So you landed 10 cod for the year then

 

400,000 anglers x 10 cod = 4,ooo,ooo cod x 1.5 kilo = 6,000,000 kilo = 6,000 tonnes of cod landed per year by anglers.

 

You released 31 cod with say a discard rate of 10% = 3 cod x1.5 kilo = 4.5 kilo x 400,000 anglers = 1,800,000 kilo = 1800 tonnes of cod that die as anglers discards every year.

 

Grand total of cod mortality by anglers is 7,800 tonnes per year, no wonder Defra are going to licence and bag limit anglers because the anglers are undermining the EU Cod Recovery Plan

 

 

steve

[wurzel]

Why will it 'fizzle out' Wurzel?

 

When there is a table laden with food, and the fat feasters gorge themselves.

 

When it is nearly all gone.

 

It's a bit rich for the fat cats that have eaten it all to turn around to the tiny mouse that has survived on the few crumbs fallen from the table, to say "Hey you are now eating more than us!"

 

"You are now the reason that there will soon be nothing left!

 

 

It will fizzle out naturally whether fished commercially or not a zero catch would make little difference as there is a very high natural mortality rate for cod I would say that 90% of any year class will die with in 10 years so unless the conditions come right for cod to spawn successfully as they did during the winter of 04-05 which was the first time for about 12 years for the southern north sea, we will soon be back to the stock level of 3 or 4 years ago.

 

 

your daft analogises are the wrong way round as an infestation of mice can soon eat a couple of fat cats out of house and home.

And I don't know of to much gorging happening these days.

[H.A.]

So you landed 10 cod for the year then

- Steve

 

Yep, but I'm quite confident the majority of beach anglers did NOT catch 10 cod, let alone keep 10 cod. If Whitby was anything to go by, then 100+tonnes for their boat anglers and 110 quota for commercial fellahs would seem a fair, sustainable and equitable 'quota' for each.

 

Of your suggested 400k(?) RSAs, most will never see a cod, let alone catch one.

 

You released 31 cod with say a discard rate of 10% = 3 cod x1.5 kilo = 4.5 kilo x 400,000 anglers = 1,800,000 kilo = 1800 tonnes of cod that die as anglers discards every year.

- Steve

 

Oh dear. Do you work for the M&FA????

Your only concept is discards = fish deaths (which is true if you are talking trawled/netted fish).

 

I watched 30 or so cod swim off at water's edge having been swimming in 20' or so of water.

They had neither been crushed, mortally wounded nor subjected to fatal pressure changes.

 

Save your own guilt-ridden conscience for the Sea Fishing News.

Why dream up NFFO pie-in-the-sky propaganda to apply to anglers who actually care about the fish they catch.

 

[steve good]

- Steve

 

Yep, but I'm quite confident the majority of beach anglers did NOT catch 10 cod, let alone keep 10 cod. If Whitby was anything to go by, then 100+tonnes for their boat anglers and 110 quota for commercial fellahs would seem a fair, sustainable and equitable 'quota' for each.

 

Of your suggested 400k(?) RSAs, most will never see a cod, let alone catch one.

 

- Steve

 

Oh dear. Do you work for the M&FA????

Your only concept is discards = fish deaths (which is true if you are talking trawled/netted fish).

 

I watched 30 or so cod swim off at water's edge having been swimming in 20' or so of water.

They had neither been crushed, mortally wounded nor subjected to fatal pressure changes.

 

Save your own guilt-ridden conscience for the Sea Fishing News.

Why dream up NFFO pie-in-the-sky propaganda to apply to anglers who actually care about the fish they catch.

 

 

Hi H.A

 

Net Benifit Report, 400,000 anglers target cod and bass.

 

Anglers have discards as well as commercials.

 

Just because your cod do not go belly up when you return them does not mean to say they wont die.

 

Handling them with or without wet hands or worst still by using a rag will remove the protective slime and scales causing infections that they latter die from, as to the area that they were hooked by.

 

Mortelity caused by shock, and the weakness caused by its struggling when caught even bleeding to death from its wounds after release.

 

All these things create angling discards

 

steve

[glennk]

The reason I asked about the science advisory group was I wondering if it was in anyways linked to this

 

"Leon Roskilly added that the data was out there in various forms (environment agency logbooks, details of size and catch data from angling societies, returns from competitions, reports in the angling press) and that a data mining exercise was needed to access and pull together the data."

 

from

 

http://www.sacn.org.uk/News/DEFRA_Science_...sory_Group.html

 

I get the feeling that bit by bit Leon you are trying to stitch us up.

[barry luxton]

Hi Barry

 

The Solent is not really the best place for large cod, however it maybe to late in the season now but next year try a chart boat from Lymington and fish south of the Needles. This area was reknown for its really large cod 40lb plus, I do not know wether it still produces these large cod best phone one of the charter skippers pick one thats been around a long time he will know what I am on about and will have the best knownlegde and you will have the best chance of getting a big one

 

For summer time cod try an area known as "The Rips" it is along way out passed the Needles but produces lots of cod sometimes smaller ones sometimes large ones

 

steve

Many thanks for that. That is exactly what i am interested in. I do fear that i have missed the boat, this year at the top end of the channel. However i will definatly give lyminton a go this winter, also not fished the needles that is something i would look forward to.

 

Is 'the rips' an area of rough ground or is it somewhere that holds wrecks that anglers target. I can go to various wrecks during the summer in any event that hold a stock of cod, it is the rough ground lunkers that will float my boat, cheers.

 

Anglers undermining the cod recovery plan, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Edited February 9, 2008 by barry luxton

[steve good]

Many thanks for that. That is exactly what i am interested in. I do fear that i have missed the boat, this year at the top end of the channel. However i will definatly give lyminton a go this winter, also not fished the needles that is something i would look forward to.

 

Is 'the rips' an area of rough ground or is it somewhere that holds wrecks that anglers target. I can go to various wrecks during the summer in any event that hold a stock of cod, it is the rough ground lunkers that will float my boat, cheers.

 

Anglers undermining the cod recovery plan, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Hi Barry

 

"The Rips" is just a bankie area, sometimes holding large amounts of cod, funny thing is when you gut them they are all full of small white starfish. but they still took live sandeels

 

Maybe if you fished with a small whole whiting you may get that bigger one that you are after.

 

quote/ Anglers undermining the cod recovery plan, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. you think so to then

 

steve

Edited February 9, 2008 by steve good