Big bream

[Steve Burke]

When I made the comment about "over complicating things" Steve, it wasn't meant as a criticism or a 'gibe'.

 

Don't worry, John, I hadn't seen your post when I was composing mine.

 

As I believe Dick Walker said "You can't catch 99% of a fish". With Wingham bream you have to get everything right and can't afford to make a mistake if you have them in your swim. Otherwise you may have missed your chance for a whole season or more.

 

Like you I believe having them in your swim is the key to catching them. So anything that you can do to improve the odds make sense. It worked for me in 2004 as I managed to find areas where the bream were more likely to pass through. It hasn't worked since though!

 

I did have the bream in my swim on one subsequent occasion, but cocked it up striking at a line bite. I don't believe I've had them in front of me since, although you can never be sure.

 

Although location is the major factor you have to get everything else right as well. When I'm not catching I always fall back on the strategy Dick Walker wrote about in the introduction to "Still-Water Angling". To paraphrase this and change the order slightly:

 

1) Fish in the right place

 

2) At the right time

 

3) With the right bait and groundbait

 

4) With the right tackle

 

5) And avoid scaring the fish

 

Although poor health and a couple of house moves has curtailed my fishing over the last few years I have had the time to think up a lot of new ideas, helped no end by discussions such as these.

 

So roll on British Summer Time!

 

Edit note: I added groundbait to item 3 above, having stupidly missed it out. Feeding is I believe the next most important factor to location.

 

The lads at Queenford and TC tried lots of different baiting patterns and no real firm conclusions were reached except that the bream weren't attracted to hemp, tares or maples. Both almost no free feed and moderate amounts worked at different times, but no pattern was noticed. I'll probably err on the side of caution as you can always put more bait in but you can't take it out. Additionally heavy baiting is physically tiring without the use of a boat.

 

Certainly the concentrated baiting that works for the tench at Wingham hasn't worked as well with the bream. And as I primarily want monster bream I have to accept that my tench catches will fall.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Steve Burke

[Kappa]

.... but I can't help thinking that sometimes anglers spend too much effort on finding a 'perfect' method, when location, luck, and/or rod hours can be the main things that determine the outcome.

 

For my part luck has played a large part of my Wingham fishing!

 

One of the reasons I like this thread etc is that I spend alot of time thinking about Wingham. This year due to family commitments I'm unlikely to be there too much and so when I am I want to feel like I've got everything 'right'. As Anderoo says most of this is confidence based, you always fish much better if you are happy and confident in your approach. Also because of limited bank time, linked with very limited numbers of bream caught it is very hard to experiment much whilst actually at Wingham.

 

Finally Wingham gets under your skin, its February but I've been thinking of nothing else for about a month now! I've never got so excited about any water, EVER!

 

Warmer weather can't come soon enough!

 

Rich

[Anderoo]

For my part luck has played a large part of my Wingham fishing!

 

Not true!

 

Finally Wingham gets under your skin, its February but I've been thinking of nothing else for about a month now! I've never got so excited about any water, EVER! Warmer weather can't come soon enough!

 

Very true!

[Dick Dastardly]

Rich Im primarily a Pike angler who targets other species in the summer months......yet I cant stop thinking bout Wingham either!

 

Never a truer word spoken re confidence.

[gozzer]

Rich Im primarily a Pike angler who targets other species in the summer months......yet I cant stop thinking bout Wingham either!

 

Never a truer word spoken re confidence.

 

I know that I feel most confident when I know my bait is in the same place as the fish.

 

 

I don't know if this has been tried before, but I'll suggest it anyway.

It seems that the 'Wingham Super Bream Hunt' is generally regarded as a team effort, with all concerned (commendably) sharing information.

Would it not make sense for you all to pick out two or three swims that have produced in the past, and concentrate your combined efforts on them? Baiting each with the same agreed baits, so as to try and create 'feeding stations' for the bream to get used to.

In that way the 'rod hours' are spread between the group, and it increases the chances of a bait being in the right place at the right time, and thus more chance of a result.

 

Do you think this could work?

Or is there a chance that the sustained pressure would have a negative effect on your chances?

 

Just a thought.

 

John.

[Dick Dastardly]

Not sure John.Mind you to certain degree we would only be pressurising the fish if we were catching them so it might be a goer.

[gozzer]

Not sure John.Mind you to certain degree we would only be pressurising the fish if we were catching them so it might be a goer.

 

That would be the general idea Budgie.

 

I just thought that it would not only increase the chances of someone latching on to a fish, but also boost the confidence of whoever is fishing the swim/s.

To know that regular baiting up was being done, instead of starting from scratch on each visit, should give you more confidence.

 

John.

[Fenman]

What a fantastic topic!

I don't post on here very often, but I can't resist this one.

I fish for bream in the Fens. Last summer I fished the Middle Level for the first time and caught reasonable fish to around 5lbs. But I was struck by their superb condition and on how hard they fought.

Now this got me thinking: maybe there are Superbream (I love that word) in there as well.

There is little record of "Supers" being caught, but it seems to me that no-one actually targets them - large bream, yes, huge bream, no.

The drain couldn't be less like places like Wingham, but it has things in common, notably 95 per cent of it is inaccessible, so there are plenty of places big bream can hide.

Now here are some of my thoughts, which may or may not be useful.

First Superbream get to that size by NOT needing to feed on anglers bait (or they would be caught more often like carp). They must find enough natural food to satisfy them.

Second, I think most people have a false impression of bream, i.e. like a herd of buffalo, heads down grazing oblivious to everything else. I actually think that bream are probably the shyest fish in our waters, constantly on guard to predators, etc.

Consequently, third, I believe they are easy to spook. Merely casting a line through a shoal can scatter even skimmers only to return five or ten minutes later. Catching a fish is the same.

So you have a shoal of 2lb bream in your swim (there could be up to 200 fish). You catch one and half a dozen scatter, but others move in. You catch others and each time a few scatter until the time comes when there are more scattered than feeding. Now the shoaling instinct takes over and they all move on. Well it's a theory.

On to the Supers. By this time there are probably only five or six left in the shoal but I believe they will remain tightly packed and just as easily spooked, so we can not expect to catch more than one.

So six Supers arrive in your swim with its tightly packed bed of feed. Only one or two fish can feed on this at one time, so the others start moving off and instantly they are all gone.

So I believe I need to spread out my feed so all the fish can feed in comfort.

To get them to take a hookbait, we need to get them relaxed and comfortable. So we need enough feed to keep them interested for at least an hour. During this time, no feeding and NO CASTING.

So my plan this summer:

Fish at night

Loads on groundbait spread over a wide area (quality doesn't matter).

Big baits, big hooks, strong line.

Cast once, maybe twice and then be prepared to sit there for many, many hours.

The problem is I don't think I can just sit it out without checking or changing bait. But I guess that's why I'm not a specimen angler.

Well, that's my twopennyworth for what it's worth.

[Anderoo]

It's a nice idea John, but I'm not sure it would work too well in practice. If you could get people in the most productive (so far) swims all the time, I'm sure a few more bream would get caught, but that's never going to happen. Also...

 

I've got a theory that they don't wander that much after all. I have a sneaky suspicion that a little group of fish will be almost semi-resident in a fairly small area (say, an acre) of the lake for months at a time, then move on to another little area. At Wingham, if you take any acre of water, you'll have depths from 2' to 12', stacks of food, and shelter from any direction of wind and undertow. Why would they need to go up and down the lake all the time? They certainly didn't get that big by doing lots of exercise! Spawning and the changing seasons (and therefore available food and prevailing weather) would be the only things to make them move significantly.

 

Most (if not all) of the captures I know about have been of the first or second night of a session, which makes me think they were already there. Also, if they're happy in the middle of the lake, no-one's going to catch one all season. There could be a group of real giants that hasn't come within a sensible fishing range yet!

 

I'm not actually going to do this because it's unfair on other anglers, but if I was there for a week and I knew I wouldn't be upsetting anyone else's fishing I would bait up 4 swims in completely different areas of the lake and fish them in rotation, like chub fishing. It would be an incredibly hard (and expensive!) week, but I reckon sitting in one swim all week you'd either catch one on the first or second night (depending on how quietly you can get the groundbait in) and then nothing, or nothing at all.

 

No, I think the only practicable way of fishing is to pick a spot where you think they might be, bait up 3 or 4 spots at different depths and hope they're there.

 

I think this is the only kind of fishing where watercraft is almost completely redundant. They are where they are, and really we don't know why. We can look at swims that have produced and come up with theories as to why they may have been there, but when you try to apply that formula to other similar swims it quickly falls apart. That's why I like chub - they're nearly always where you expect them to be!

[Anderoo]

So six Supers arrive in your swim with its tightly packed bed of feed. Only one or two fish can feed on this at one time, so the others start moving off and instantly they are all gone.

So I believe I need to spread out my feed so all the fish can feed in comfort.

 

That's a very interesting point, I think you're right. I reckon they might wander back later that night though.

 

It does raise a good theoretical question - does a tight bed of bait create competitive feeding or force the fish away from you? I bait up fairly loosely, about an area the size of a family car, rather than really tight baiting like I would for tench.

 

PS I used to love bream fishing in the fens! Quite a few shoal bream, I've never heard of any giants but who's to say with that many miles of fertile drains...

 

Another interesting question to the more experienced breamers out there - can a water like the fens contain both shoal bream and giant bream, or is it always a 'one or the other' situation?