Big bream

[Dick Dastardly]

I also don't (yet!) trust plain plastic baits for bream in the same way I do for tench and carp.

 

Sadly I dont either! I think all fish will take them by sight during the day but at night its only the "hoovers" that pick them up (unintentionally probably) at night whilst feeding (by smell) on the natural free offerings/groundbait.

[Anderoo]

That's a very detailed reply Budgie, I'd just like to pick up on a few points if I may.

 

Im not entirely convinced (despite him having had multiple catchs) that Alex's theories (all though very interesting and well thought out) behind them are correct.

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning behind this. As a newbie I have to admit that there's very little Alex has said that I thought didn't make sense!

 

What time of year in relation to spawning time did you see the shoals Anderoo?

I've never seen a shoal. I saw 3-4 bream porposing away after you and Rob had caught (May), and 2 fish roll over my baited spot after I'd caught (July).

 

No I really dont think bream like boillies so will not get on to them unless there is no other viable food source.Reason they dont like them (or realy I suppose I should say dont prefer them?) I think is linked to the way they feed which is different to carp and tench. I also believe that classic bream "hoovering" is only a result of the competition caused by feeding in shoal.These non shoal fish simply not having the competition and therefore "grazing" rather than "hoovering"

What if there is no other viable food source on a spot they've been hammering all night and are still hungry for more?

 

Presuming that you will be lucky to catch one if you have three or four in front of you without spooking the others as unlike shoal bream I think these big ones will spook) To catch several then I feel you must have an unusually high number in front of you.This I feel will boil down to simply being in the right place at the right time be it by luck or design.

I'm not sure of this. I think if you can get them feeding really hard over the course of the night, you can take one from the shoal and the others won't mind too much. Possibly a good reason not to fish the margins? The main reasin I say that is because (1) it's been done before by others and more importantly (2) after I'd put my fish back there were still bream feeding on my spot. I saw two clear as day roll right over my bait, and those fish were definitely catchable. Unfortunately, my next fish was a cheeky tench! Maybe I did have a whole stack in front of me?

 

I hope I'm not coming across like I'm a great bream angler and that I know all the answers. I'm not and I don't! But at the moment I think that swim choice is still largely a lottery, rigs are fairly unimportant and hookbait can be pretty much whatever you want it to be - but getting the feeding right is your 100% top priority, as everything then follows from that.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Anderoo

[Dick Dastardly]

Im with you on your last paragraph mate and the same rings true for me!

 

When Alex first spoke to me bout his theory I thought it was certainly feasable but after a lot of thought Im not totally sold on the bream re visiting the same spot many times during the night.I see no reason why they would do this and not just feed till they had enough in one "sitting". I think the reason they seem to do this is that something is spooking them out of the baited area and they are returning later (as they know food is there) once they are confident again.It was once sugested by one of the Queenford Syndicate that when we were getting the fish on top of/up bars in relatively shallow water the bream felt nervous venturing into such shallow water despite wanting to get the food? It may of course be the the lines in the water or just the unaturalness of the baited area.Be interesting to see what depths of swim the multiple catchs have come from the various "freak" bream waters.

 

Re the shoals that makes sense as the only time any proper shoal has been seen (to my knowledge) by baillifs,anglers etc has been around spawning time.

 

Re boillies I take your point but still feel tht as they have never neede to try alternative food sources they may still ignore them not even recognising them as a viable food source as theyve never felt the need to try them.There is also (in my mind) a possibility that such fish in such rich waters may not ever really accept any of our standard bream baits as totally natural and they are only taken as a result of them feeding on the natural food amongst it! Therefore why small/light baits seem so productive?

 

Re spooking.I think why we get away with not spooking shoal/larger numbers of feeding bream is simply down to the numbers.They can be so densely packed over a bed of bait that they simply dont see/detect/feel others being removed.In our situation the "competitive" feeding level isnt high enough due to plenty of food and few fish.Also if there are only three (for argument) bream together one will be far more easily noticed missing than if there are several hundred/dozen/whatever of them.

 

I totally agree though that it sadly apears that despite its utmost importance the swim choice will be a lottery.As we keep saying I think when you get your chance you have to make the most of it.For me that means ensuring that all my gear/rigs etc are 100% and removing all potential possibilites for drama that I can! Im not even convinced if the rules and my health permitted me to fish all season long (like I used to on other big bream waters) that enough information/observations would be made to overcome these problems we are disscussing. Fine on Meres where they patrol or waters they shoal or where they show........but if they did any of these things as their cousains do then they wouldnt be "freak bream" and of the size they are!

[Dick Dastardly]

Possibly a good reason not to fish the margins?

 

 

Yes totally agree.Ive never rated the margins for bream.Yes I know I had that one from close in and so did Terry.But I think these were flukes.No other water I know for any size bream is best in close.I tried it on my initial visits to Wingham just as it was an easy starting point (also I was messing about trying to edge my bets for tench and bream) last year at Wingham I fished both close in and further out but still with a foot in each camp.It doesnt work.

 

I will be locating features at a minimum of 30-40m to bait and fish to this comming season possibly even further dependant on the feature/where in relation to the feature I feel the bream may be.

[Anderoo]

Thanks for that Budgie. I assumed that the bream would visit and revisit an area, slowly building up confidence, because they're nervous of the unnatural baited spot but attracted by the bait. Their natural nerves are slowly overcome by hunger/greed and 'competition' (possibly the wrong word as there are so few fish, but I can't think of a better one!). Just guesses though.

 

The trouble with hookbaits will always be nuisance fish. Maggots and worms will attract eels and perch, sweetcorn will get the roach and rudd, pellets can't be trusted, fake baits I think will be ignored, and that doesn't leave much! I'd much rather not use boilies, but the list of possible baits is getting a bit thin. It's not that I don't like catching other fish, I just don't want to risk scaring bream away by reeling in and recasting. Once I've cast, I want it to stay there. I'm just thankful the tench are fairly inactive at night! I think the bream would eat anything you put there if you get the feeding right - it's other factors which determine what to use.

 

As for swim choice, there are known areas which are always worth a go, and there are spots which are basically unfished which I think are worth some effort. So I'll probably split my time between these. I agree about the margins - I think I'd rather have 20yards+ between me and any bream, just in case it's possible to catch more than one. The known areas get a lot more attention than anywhere else though, so there may well be some very productive spots just waiting to be discovered...

[Kappa]

I see no reason why they would do this and not just feed till they had enough in one "sitting".

 

I reckon that the bream in Wingham are very nervous, any mistakes and you've missed your chance, e.g. striking at a line bite. As such it may pay to treat a swim as if you were fishing for carp on the surface, where you are trying to get them to feed confidently and competitively before you try to catch them. I'm not sure myself about the best baiting ploy but I'd er toward too little rather than too much, I think tight spots could be good too as this may help create competition is the bait is in a relatively tight spot.

 

Re boillies I take your point but still feel tht as they have never neede to try alternative food sources they may still ignore them not even recognising them as a viable food source as theyve never felt the need to try them.There is also (in my mind) a possibility that such fish in such rich waters may not ever really accept any of our standard bream baits as totally natural and they are only taken as a result of them feeding on the natural food amongst it! Therefore why small/light baits seem so productive?

 

I think they is no reason why boilies won't work per se. Most baits anglers use are 'unnatural' e.g. crumb, corn, pellets etc. For example I don't see why corn would work better or worse than a boilie. The problem is when you can't get a bait to the bottom becuase of rudd etc there are few options left!

 

How you bait might depend on what you think the bream are doing. If you think they are semi-resident in the area you are fishing, light-regular baiting could easily pick out a few as they pass your spot. However if you are fishing pinch points etc I reckon you have to introduce enough bait to either stop and hold them, or at least enusre they come back again rather than continuing on their trip to wherever they are going!

 

Rich

[Dick Dastardly]

I think they is no reason why boilies won't work per se. Most baits anglers use are 'unnatural' e.g. crumb, corn, pellets etc. For example I don't see why corn would work better or worse than a boilie. The problem is when you can't get a bait to the bottom becuase of rudd etc there are few options left!

 

 

Rich

 

I think its there size and weight that stops them being taken unintentionaly.

[Kappa]

I think its there size and weight that stops them being taken unintentionaly.

 

You could well be right! However a small 10mm boilie is very similar to a couple of grains of sweetcorn!

 

I actually wonder if they have any idea what they are actually picking up! They don't have barbels, and they can't see what they are picking up! In that way I reckon anything could be picked up if it was amongst other bait if it was the right buoyancy! I'd be very interested in more info/footage of bream feeding. Surely they have to 'hoover' groundbait and small items? That said if the can't taste with their barbels maybe the test larger items in their lips?

 

Rich

[Dick Dastardly]

Yes I would love to see some footage of Wingham bream feeding.It would answer a lot of questions.

[Anderoo]

It wouldn't need to be a whole boilie, and it wouldn't have to be heavy. You could get a 12mm fishmeal pop-up and keep trimming it so it's small and just sinks under the weight of the hook...