Big bream

[Dick Dastardly]

I think I understand what Stoney was saying! But it has to be remembered that very few of his "big bream" waters and indeed "big bream" are the same as what we now regard as such.

 

I think he's saying its more the way they feed that stops them using enough "suck" to bring bigger baits/food items into their mouths.At this point let me fess up and admit that Ive only been lucky enough to observe bream (fish in the 8-10lb class at that) feeding naturally. They (when over a bed of feed) seem to "right" themselves after each mouthfull a lot more regularly than carp do in a similar situation.Carp happily stay head down and just keep hoovering.I had/have always been lead to believe bream are the same but the only time I witnessed them feeding it was just not so. Yes they will some times just "pick" "buffet" style over even a large bed of bait and at other times stay untill all the food is gone (well I think this is whats happening but it could be just the sheer amount of numbers in a shoal that make the second option happen?) I dont know if they do ever "hoover" like carp as like Ive said I have only the one experience to refer to.

 

In regards to Dens comments. Ive had many bream up to the 12lb mark that have picked up "definate" big baits like 18mm boillies whilst carping.I say definate as I always use a great lump if Im using flake but of course cant be sure of the actual size it remains when taken. Flake (tying into Cyns comment) has caught me a lot of bream up to 12 but non over.

 

Over the years weve been discussing this subject Ive never been to convinced that Den has got my point about big bream and "big bream"! I would like to try and explain again as I value his input (and the others who I seem to have confused)

 

Den and others have asked why I think that a bream should suddenly start behaving different when it reaches 15lb+.In his last post he asks that surely its down to age that a fish would be "wise and old".

 

Obviously they dont change things that are of course "habbits of a lifetime" such as feeding.Its simply that any bream in waters I know of that get to over 15lb (this for some reason seems to be the magic figure try, researching top weights in waters let alone "average top weights") have spent all their lives (no doubt due to the water they are in) feeding/behaving in a way that allows them to reach this 15lb+ size.

 

Simply said its because of this different behaviour (which they will do all their lives at all sizes) that they have achieved their size not that they have suddenly changed at 12lb to enable them to get bigger.

 

I hope that makes sense as Im still not sure Ive explained it clearly enough.

 

This whole thread (thanks Anderoo) has really made me re look at some of my veiws and the way I aproach "big" bream. I have done exceptionally well with bream up to 12lb ( I stoped recording doubles after I reached 50 something) but have never been able to realize the same sucsess with real big bream.I have always used quite large baits such as worm and corn cocktails,bread flake.Even when I have used corn by itself its always been a size 8 or 6 stuffed with as many grains as possible. As said really produced the goods on several 12 max waters.But at Queenford and TC I struggled to catch any of the biggies,in fact struggled to catch bream full stop.My rod hours to bream caught ratios ( Queenford/TC) are ridiculous even more pathetic (in fact by a long long way) than the same ratios when I fished hard carp waters such as Collingbrook.The sucsessfull guys on both Queenford and TC used much smaller hooks and much smaller baits.

 

A couple of the guys on my rota used to come down to the water I was running at the time for a bit of easy big bream fishing to break the monotony.They used to think I was the most unluky guy not to catch at Queenford/TC after seeing me catch on this other water................In reflection I really dont believe I was unlucky I was simply fishing the wrong way blinded by my sucsess with my methods for -12 fish.

Edited September 18, 2008 by BUDGIE

[Anderoo]

In case you missed the report in last week's Angler's Mail, the biggest brace of bream ever has recently been caught by design - 18lb 10oz and 19lb exactly. There are some details and photos on the Maggotdrowners forum here: http://www.maggotdrowning.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=80108

 

This has to rate as one of the most significant angling feats in history - a serious well done to the captor!

 

The lack of coverage/chat about this just goes to show how poorly regarded bream are compared to other species.

[Dick Dastardly]

Two more cracking fish.As you say mate Bream are definately the Cinderalla's of the specimen hunting world.Very few people realise exactly how difficult they are to catch intentionally.Only once you start trying do people realise.

[Anderoo]

Two more cracking fish.As you say mate Bream are definately the Cinderalla's of the specimen hunting world.Very few people realise exactly how difficult they are to catch intentionally.Only once you start trying do people realise.

 

New record this weekend for sure

 

I've been thinking about all the interesting stuff that's come up in this topic and at the moment I feel as follows:

 

Flavours: no idea how they work, but I reckon they do work so I'm going to stop worrying about it and carry on using some in an amount that 'feels right'.

 

Bait size: I'm definitely going back to smaller, neutral bouyancy, natural baits and just try to put up with the eels. If that proves impossible, I'll probably switch to a single 10mm boilie. Nothing bigger. After struggling to keep pellets on the hook last time, I think I'll give up on those, despite catching a fish on one. In fact I rather think I caught that fish in spite of the bait, to be honest.

 

Undertow: There's some good stuff about undertow in Tony Miles' chapter in John Bailey's Gentle Giants book. I still have a hunch that bream would prefer to be out of strong tow. Tony Miles describes being utterly baffled by undertow on reservoirs when roach fishing - how they suddenly start, suddenly stop, or suddenly change direction, despite no change in conditions. Also how one area of a body of water is perfectly still while 200 yards down the bank the undertow is really strong. And that's without a maze of gravel bars making things even more confusing. So, I'm not going to try to fully understand it, but will be bearing it in mind. Hopefully at some point somebody will be able to explain it to me.

 

For me, the best thing to come out of all this has been the feeding and groundbait stuff. I really feel like that's been properly ticked off.

[poledark]

Thanks for the link Anderoo,........ awesome fish..

 

Den

[wyeknot]

Very few people realise exactly how difficult they are to catch intentionally.Only once you start trying do people realise.

 

I know Budgie, I've fished for them twice now and only caught one over 16lb!

 

Anderoo - great thread mate! I've not contributed much but I've read the lot and, as Budgie says, it has made me look a lot harder at what I'm doing when targetting bream. The idea of putting a large bed of bait down and fishing a worm/corn bait over the top hoping to "stack 'em up like breeze blocks" doesn't work. I've just read Dick Walker's piece on how bream feed in his book "Catching Fish - Knowing their feeding habits" and it ties in very much with what has been said on this thread. He also reckons that bream 'wash' their food by alternately sucking and blowing. He says that he used to watch the bream at London Zoo up-end, suck in a mixture of the food and sand from the bottom, rise up a few inches first, then blow out the mouthful before sucking the piece of food back in. He claims that they often do this five or six times before they right themselves and move off.

 

Like you, I'm looking to balance my bait so that it just sinks but then I'm going to wrap the bait in paste so that there is an intense, identifiable tiny patch of food and flavour that the bream will up-end over. Then, when they suck at this patch of food, they will suck in the pellet/boilie on a hair. Then, when they blow it out, the lightweight hook should do it's job and catch hold. Well, that's the theory anyway. The problem is, again as Dick says in his book, first you have to find your bream! But that's a different story!

 

I'm looking forward to this w/e. It'll be good to meet up again and chew over these ideas.

 

Regards,

 

Steve C.

[Dick Dastardly]

I know Budgie, I've fished for them twice now and only caught one over 16lb!

 

He also reckons that bream 'wash' their food by alternately sucking and blowing. He says that he used to watch the bream at London Zoo up-end, suck in a mixture of the food and sand from the bottom, rise up a few inches first, then blow out the mouthful before sucking the piece of food back in. He claims that they often do this five or six times before they right themselves and move off.

 

I'm looking forward to this w/e. It'll be good to meet up again and chew over these ideas.

 

Regards,

 

Steve C.

 

Im saying nothing Mr Golden Orbes!

 

Ive not mentioned it before but the buisness you quote Walker on.I have often wondered if this behaviour is what causes a lot of the so called "line bites" we get. I say this as Ive always preached that you should ignore the 2' ish rises of the bobbin as they are "line bites" (what ever they are you enevitably miss them) and wait till the bobbin hits the rod (most big bream anglers work on a "bigger the bream longer the drop" principle). Rather than these rises of the bobbin being the result of the line running up then over the fish it could be the "washing" process? People say you can always tell a true "liner" as the bobbin will rise smoothly then drop back again just as smooth.I reckon theres a good chance that the reason these small line bites or in fact what may be the washing lark would look the same as the light bobbins used would not drop back like a stone like a heavy carp one but quite slowly and smoothly?

 

Dont suppose it really matters as whatever causes them they are stilkl best avoided untill the classic butt ringer.Maybe this is why the guys (like Den and other carpers) dont have problems with line bites? ie the bream get hooked by their fixed rigs during the "washing" process unlike us on running rigs?

 

 

Oh yes Im to looking forward to seeing eveyone and comparing how this season did or didnt go! Be my last Bream trip to Wingham for the year as my piking head is about to be put on!

Edited October 7, 2008 by BUDGIE

[wyeknot]

You may have a point there Budgie. I have always assumed that a line bite is caused by the fish lifting the line as it passes under neath but it does stretch the imagination a bit to think that very big bream could 'limbo dance' under a fishing line that is close to the bed of the lake. I suppose that these line bites could be as a result of the line being moved sideways or even being pushed down but I'm not sure that these actions would present themselves as classic up and down movements of the bobbin.

 

I need to think a bit more about this. It sounds like a good topic for the group discussion though - "Is a line bite caused by the fish moving the line or the bait?"

 

Good One Budgie!

[Rob Ward]

Gents, good luck for the weekend. I've got to sit this one out unfortunately.

 

Rob

 

p.s. If you're Wingham S.G. members I've set up a forum so if you P.M. me your email addresses we can get it up and running!

[Anderoo]

Shame you won't be there Rob, but great news about the forum, thanks for that

 

This will be my last session this season too I think. I'm not expecting much but if the forecast is to be believed I reckon someone will strike lucky. I certainly hope so.

 

The washing baits theory is very interesting. Another reason to use semi-fixed rigs? Also, as bream seem to feed selectively on individual items, it does make sense to have a hookbait more attractive than the surrounding loosefeed/groundbait (e.g. Steve's bait wrapped in paste), but not overflavoured to the point of it being repellent.