Big bream

[lutra]

Well the topic wasn't supposed to be about finding evidence that very big, low stock gravel pit bream behave differently to small shoal bream.

"Big bream

Rigs, bait, everything"

 

Having said that, of course big, low stock density bream behave differently to small shoal bream!

Do you think the bream in Wingham behaved differently when they were only 10lb? I don't.

[Anderoo]

OK, I suppose that does come under 'everything', but it's clutching at straws a bit isn't it.

 

Yes, I do think that the Wingham bream behaved differently at 10lb than shoal bream. I think they behaved differently at 3lb than shoal bream. They've never been in a proper shoal. Are you saying you think that all bream everywhere behave the same or am I misunderstanding you?

 

Why do some bream go on to grow to these huge sizes - say, 15lb+ - and others max out at 5lb, if they're all the same?

[lutra]

OK, I suppose that does come under 'everything', but it's clutching at straws a bit isn't it.

IMO what you are feeding to catch a solitary fish wouldn't be what i would feed to make a multiple catch. So yes IMO it does matter if your bream are solitary or in groups/shoals.

 

Yes, I do think that the Wingham bream behaved differently at 10lb than shoal bream. I think they behaved differently at 3lb than shoal bream. They've never been in a proper shoal. Are you saying you think that all bream everywhere behave the same or am I misunderstanding you?

No I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is how bream behave is more about things like available food, stocking dencites, size and type of water....... Not their size.

 

Why do some bream go on to grow to these huge sizes - say, 15lb+ - and others max out at 5lb, if they're all the same?

Available food, stocking dencites, size and type of water.........

[Anderoo]

I'm not really sure what your point is to be honest.

 

Now I know what I'm doing I'm trying to catch more than one, but even so, I would still feed that much to catch a single bream. We know they're in groups, always have done. People don't catch just one because there is only one, it's because the rest spook away. Get the feeding right and a bit of luck, and you can avoid that happening long enough to get another one or even two.

 

If you mean that the bream in Wingham have always behaved the way they do now, i.e. they behaved the same way at 1lb as they now do at 14lb+, then yes, of course I agree with you. I don't think that's ever been in question?

 

The thread has never been about trying to prove that these are extra special fish and that we are very clever and serious anglers - it would be a shame if that's how it comes across. It certainly isn't my intention, anyway.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Anderoo

[lutra]

I'm not really sure what your point is to be honest.

 

Now I know what I'm doing I'm trying to catch more than one, but even so, I would still feed that much to catch a single bream. We know they're in groups, always have done. People don't catch just one because there is only one, it's because the rest spook away. Get the feeding right and a bit of luck, and you can avoid that happening long enough to get another one or even two.

I made no reference to how "much" you fed, it was "what" you feed. I just can't see ground bait with no really food value being the kind of stuff that would make bream want to put their heads down and ignore what is going on around them.

 

If you mean that the bream in Wingham have always behaved the way they do now, i.e. they behaved the same way at 1lb as they now do at 14lb+, then yes, of course I agree with you. I don't think that's ever been in question?

I wouldn't have a clue what the bream in wingham are or have been like, Ive never been there. But i think maybe we agree.

 

The thread has never been about trying to prove that these are extra special fish and that we are very clever and serious anglers - it would be a shame if that's how it comes across. It certainly isn't my intention, anyway.

What are you going on about?

 

And who is this "we" you talk for? Or should it read WE as in Wingham E.........?

[Anderoo]

Sorry Lutra, you've completely lost me now. I'm just trying to second guess your motives/points as I can't clearly see what you mean. Probably my fault.

[lutra]

Sorry Lutra, you've completely lost me now. I'm just trying to second guess your motives/points as I can't clearly see what you mean. Probably my fault.

Ive never had any motives Anderoo. I think maybe it's just you and others that seem to wish i had, but maybe that's my fault for tugging your strings that way.

[Anderoo]

I just had a quick chat with Steve Burke, and he prompted me to post up something about location/behaviour - wandering or resident.

 

There is a bream that has a scratch on its back near its dorsal on the right flank. I've caught it once and Alex has caught it 3 times. It has been caught in 3 separate swims over 3 seasons, all in completely different areas of the lake. One year, Alex caught 2 bream from a swim, went back the next weekend and caught exactly the same 2 bream again! One of them was the one with the scratch, the other had a distinctive tail lobe.

 

So that fish and her mates do go all over the lake, but she also stays in the same areas for weeks (maybe months?) at a time.

[Dick Dastardly]

No I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is how bream behave is more about things like available food, stocking dencites, size and type of water....... Not their size.

 

But surely Brian this is what enables them to get to this size? I keep saying that I dont think SB's are the result of genetics but merely a consequence of the above mentioned factors.

 

Not just Wingham either but several of the big bream waters I have fished. The big carp water bream are obviously down to their situation but here I feel that the extra availability of HP food in the way of carpers baits is the one over riding factor and the individual gene thing comes in.

 

Not all carp water bream reach the same massive sizes so its surely just the one or two individuals that are genetically able to take advantage of this extra food.With SB's the majority of the bream reach these sizes.

 

My interpretation of the facts or the theory I out forward to explain them may be flawed but the facts remain. Only SB water have bream of 15lb+ in the majority where "carp bait fed" waters all though producing ( a few) of the same size bream have a massive range of different sized ones.

 

I wouldnt like to say which would ultimately produce the biggest but would have to lean towards the carp waters.

 

One thing I have to admit changing my mind about though is the business of using boilies for bream. As the few SB waters I had fished reacted very poorly to them (one was heavily carp fished but two others were not) I had written them off.It seems Im wrong on this one and its just a case of like most things it varies from water to water.

 

Ive done very very little fishing the past two seasons so can not put any of this down to practical experience bit purely observation of others catches over the period.

[Anderoo]

I wouldnt like to say which would ultimately produce the biggest but would have to lean towards the carp waters.

 

Is this just a numbers thing Budgie - because there are more such carp waters than LSD bream waters, and therefore a bigger chance of one of the bream getting really huge? There have been a few 20lb+ bream found dead at Farmoor, biggest over 22lb, and the fluff chuckers aren't putting many boilies in!

 

One thing I have to admit changing my mind about though is the business of using boilies for bream. As the few SB waters I had fished reacted very poorly to them (one was heavily carp fished but two others were not) I had written them off.It seems Im wrong on this one and its just a case of like most things it varies from water to water.

 

If you get a chance, talk to Ken at Wingham about hemp and bream - now that really will stop you sleeping...! Serious question about boilies - do you think that the quality of boilies is just much better now, which is why LSD bream eat them even if they're not put in the lake in great quantities? Or were boilies years ago just as good?