Feeder not viable for summer roach?

[The Flying Tench]

I fish the middle Thames, though have never really felt I've got the hang of it. I don't have perfect eyesight so, since it is a wide river, I normally fish the feeder, trying to cast to the edge of the main flow. My main target is roach, but to say I don't 'bag up' would be an understatement!  I see plenty of other anglers fishing the same way as I do, and they don't 'bag up' either!

But I am a member of Littlemore A.S. and have just had a look at their match results for a couple of recent years to see what method and bait the winning anglers used. This is just for their main water at Sandford, which has a very good head of roach. I have ignored the winter, when few roach were caught anyway. To my astonishment no summer or early autumn match was won on feeder. They were always won on 'waggler', and from late July to late September this was usually with hemp and caster or hemp and tares - and the catches were predominantly roach, I assume up in the water.

Phew! It is no surprise some of the matches were won this way, but it has taken me back a bit that none were won by feeder, the method that many Thames anglers use. How does it compare with your local river? I guess I'm going to have to change my tactics, though it won't be easy as I find it hard to see a float more than a couple of rod lengths out. Any comments welcome.

[Tigger]

 

I know several avid roach anglers who fish the same large river as myself.

They are float angling fanatics, but, sometimes they switch to feeder fishing and have similar results.

Infact, I think one of them caught his pb roach with a light feeder in a slack when the river was up and coloured.

It's swings and roundabouts I think John, you just have to use the right method in the conditons which suit it.

Personally, I find winter to be the best time for roach on the rivers.  On my local rivers they will migrate and shoal up during the winter months, so you just need to find out where they migrate too.

Very often it will be the tidal areas as it is on mine.  They mingle in with the likes of dace and can form massive shoals.

[Martin56]

Hi John, just think on that some Anglers will tell "Porkies" & that the methods used are not always the methods they have reported!!

Match anglers are notorious for putting their fellow fishermen away - Giving out false info' is all part of the Match Scene!! & small Clubs maybe even moreso. 

Just something to think about.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Martin56

[The Flying Tench]

That's comforting, Ayjay, that your float-fishing friends still catch well when they switch to feeder. But, as I think you are saying, that's probably because they switch to feeder when the conditions are right for it - which is doubtless when the roach are already  feeding on the bottom. The question for me is whether, when they are happily feeding in mid water, putting in groundbait via a feeder or bait dropper will be enough to change their behaviour. When I look at the results some Thames anglers are getting in the summer on float, and compare them with my own (and other anglers I see) results on feeder, I'm coming to the conclusion that it will only affect it a bit.

For example, a few years ago I was catching on hemp and tares. I thought to myself that the fish wouldn't be catching all the feed in mid water, and it must be accumulating on the bottom. So I switched to ledger. Zilch. They wanted a falling bait.

[Tigger]

 

They certanly won't get all the hemp as it falls though the water, not unless your only throwing in a few grains at a time.

But, as you say, on the day the fish wanted a moving bait, that happens to me when targetting barbel and chub also.  You just have to be prepared to swap and change.  I mean, you could have a float rod and a leger rod set up and swap about if one method slows down. Try different hook sizes, hooklengths etc and swap and change your baits.  If your using maggots switch from one maggot to 14 maggots!  I'm serious with that, I do it all the time and it works really well.

I use a sort of mid sized hook most of the time, a 14s drennan superspade or 14s kamasan animal.  This sized hook fish ok with two or three maggots or with up to 14 squashed on them. If using two maggots I will thread on onto the hook to hide it.  I never worry about masking the hook and bumping off fish because it just doesn't seem to happen to me.  I think people bump fish because they don't strike hard enough to drive the hook home, I strike like a panther lol.

 

 

[Whitty]

On the Thames you are unlikely at best to get a match winning weight of roach on the feeder,the pole or waggler will usually outscore the feeder by a country mile,bleak are a real issue on the Thames in summer,even on the feeder,weights of roach upwards of ten pounds,to more than thirty can only be amassed with a float,you would be missing nine out of ten bites on the lead... Hemp and tares,sometimes just hemp are best maybe slipping and odd caster or maggot on the hook,particularly early in the session...

[The Flying Tench]

19 hours ago, Whitty said:

On the Thames you are unlikely at best to get a match winning weight of roach on the feeder,the pole or waggler will usually outscore the feeder by a country mile,bleak are a real issue on the Thames in summer,even on the feeder,weights of roach upwards of ten pounds,to more than thirty can only be amassed with a float,you would be missing nine out of ten bites on the lead... Hemp and tares,sometimes just hemp are best maybe slipping and odd caster or maggot on the hook,particularly early in the session...

That's interesting to hear it said so strongly. Do you feel this is a particular Thames thing, or does it apply to most rivers in summer, maybe 'cos the fish are up in the water? And you mention 'missing 9 out of 10 bites'. Are you meaning this literally, that the fish are biting but feeder isn't sensitive enough to register them, or are you just saying we'll catch less fish because they don't want a static bait?

Incidently, I think you are a relatively new member. In case no-one has said it, welcome to AN! It would be interesting to know where you fish mostly nowadays and what type of fishing you like to do. I'd personally be particularly interested to know if you still fish the Thames

[Whitty]

I havent fished the Thames for two years,I have a history of match fishing at a high level and have won matches on the Thames,Gt.Ouse,Trent,plus a few others,canals lakes,though not for a while(too old,lol),these days I fish nearer to home (Luton),on local rivers,lakes etc,I love barbel and chub fishing on rivers,tench,crucian carp and bream on stillwaters,loving quality roach anywhere,the problem with roach on the feeder is hooking bites,the only really successful rig I know is the helicopter rig,which isn't so effective on rivers,also the average weight of roach is relatively low,ie 3-8ozs,yes you catch bigger,but...these bigger fish are a little easier to hook on the lead/feeder,float fishing,when shotting is sorted has a far more effective fish to bite ratio,I believe it is all resistance related,fishing has no hard and fast rules,roach feed sometimes hard on the deck,at others 6" deep, another key factor is the roach's love to compete for loose feed,this gives opportunities for regular bites on the float,as I say there is no definite rules so how many bites you miss will be an on the day thing,but you WILL miss a greater amount of bites resulting in more and more recasts,which in turn result in more missed bites,a never ending circle... And thanks for the welcome...

Edited August 29, 2021 by Whitty
Missed section

[S63]

What parts of the Thames did you fish Alan?

[Whitty]

I've fished a lot at Newbridge,Northmoor,Kings weir,Tadpole Bridge,Sandford,Wallingford,Benson,Culham,Abingdon,Dorchester,a little around Windsor and a bit on the tidal at Richmond,probably more...