Now, Crabs Feel Pain!

[Norrie]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090327/tuk-c...in-6323e80.html

 

Also this...

 

http://www.qub.ac.uk/home/TheUniversity/Ge...,141245,en.html

 

 

There might be an RSPCC now!! :rolleyes:

Edited March 27, 2009 by Norrie

[Elton]

Take a look in the Sea Fishing forum

[gozzer]

Wonder how much this "research" cost us...

 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090327/tuk-c...in-6323e80.html

 

They're obviously not feeling the pinch like the rest of us Norrie.

 

 

Why do they always assume that because a creature reacts negatively to something, it's the result of 'pain'? Even so called 'scientists' are guilty of anthropomorphism when dealing with such things.

Just because a creature reacts to a stimuli it doesn't mean 'pain' (as we know it) is necessarily involved.

 

John.

[Worms]

They're obviously not feeling the pinch like the rest of us Norrie.

 

 

Why do they always assume that because a creature reacts negatively to something, it's the result of 'pain'? Even so called 'scientists' are guilty of anthropomorphism when dealing with such things.

Just because a creature reacts to a stimuli it doesn't mean 'pain' (as we know it) is necessarily involved.

 

John.

I suppose that is the issue. It is a 'negative' response to a stimulus. Although possibly anthropomorphic it becomes difficult to get the research results over to the public if you describe them as a negative response to a chemically induced electical impulse as a result of an externally applied electrical shock. Pain's the easiest way to describe it and it is analogous with the nerve impulses and subsequent actions that higher animals make when hurt.

 

Zap a 9v battery across somebody's tongue whilst they are eating an ice cream and you'd get a similar response. This would probably be accompanied by an ouch and followed by an action that would result in you giving a negative response to a chemically induced electrical impulse as a result of a conical cereal based confection being inserted into the orbit accommodating the occular apparatus

[gozzer]

Then why not say "it felt it, and reacted to it"?

 

If something itches, irritates, or even tickles me, then I have a negative response to it, and will either scratch, or move away, no "pain" involved.

 

John.

[Worms]

Then why not say "it felt it, and reacted to it"?

 

If something itches, irritates, or even tickles me, then I have a negative response to it, and will either scratch, or move away, no "pain" involved.

 

John.

I suppose to be honest I can't really answer that. I haven't read the article. It may well be that the chemical imbalances, neuro-electrical impulses and subsequent behaviour is analagous to pain in higher animals..........in which case it probably is pain!

 

Until Walt Disney teaches real crabs to speak we may never know!

[Elton]

Until Walt Disney teaches real crabs to speak we may never know!

 

If you ever tell my kids they can't, I'll hunt you down.....

 

Youtube Video ->

[corydoras]

They're obviously not feeling the pinch like the rest of us Norrie.

 

 

Why do they always assume that because a creature reacts negatively to something, it's the result of 'pain'? Even so called 'scientists' are guilty of anthropomorphism when dealing with such things.

Just because a creature reacts to a stimuli it doesn't mean 'pain' (as we know it) is necessarily involved.

 

John.

Why do you assume that just because it's an invertebrate that a crab cannot feel pain?

 

"This research demonstrates that it is not a simple reflex but that crabs trade-off their need for a quality shell with the need to avoid the harmful stimulus.

 

"Such trade-offs are seen in vertebrates in which the response to pain is controlled with respect to other requirements. Humans, for example, may hold onto a hot plate that contains food whereas they may drop an empty plate, showing that we take into account differing motivational requirements when responding to pain.[/i]

 

Just because you don't like the findings, does not mean that they are not factual.

Edited March 28, 2009 by corydoras

[gozzer]

Why do you assume that just because it's an invertebrate that a crab cannot feel pain?

 

 

Just because you don't like the findings, does not mean that they are not factual.

 

Hang on cory, take your lab coat off for a bit and read what I said.

"Why do they always assume that because a creature reacts negatively to something, it's the result of 'pain'? Even so called 'scientists' are guilty of anthropomorphism when dealing with such things.

Just because a creature reacts to a stimuli it doesn't mean 'pain' (as we know it) is necessarily involved.

I didn't assume that they didn't feel pain, any more than I assumed that they did.

I just said they reacted negatively to a stimuli.

 

I likened it to the experiments on fish. I have had little experience of crabs, (wait for the comments ), but I have been around fish all my life.

I have witnessed behaviour in fish, (in the wild), that have convinced me that they do not feel 'pain' in the sense that we know it. If that goes against some of the findings by scientists, then so be it, but my own experiences mean more to me that a report from a lab'. (nothing to do with believing what I want to believe).

 

But that's fish, maybe you have more experience of crabs than I do?

 

It's a bit like my being an atheist, I believe more from what I can see, feel and experience, than what someone else might say/believe is true.

 

John.

Edited March 28, 2009 by gozzer

[corydoras]

It's a bit like my being an atheist, I believe more from what I can see, feel and experience, than what someone else might say/believe is true.

 

John.

How can you see, feel or experience something that doesn't exist? If there were no gods, how would we know? I am an atheist because I see no evidence to support the existence of gods.

 

There really isn't a lot of difference between me and a Christian. Like me, Christians don't believe in a whole pantheon of deities from Amun to Zeus. I just see no evidence for one less than they do. I don't believe in any supernatural beings whether the be gods, ghosts, hobgoblins or fairies at the bottom of the garden.

 

However even if someone could offer me empirical evidence for the existence of the god of the bible, Jehovah, I would not worship him, for he is a monster.

 

I'm also a sceptic. I don't do the 'belief' thing at all. There are things that I reject as being false and things that I accept as facts, if supported by the evidence. If new evidence comes to light then what may once have been false may now be true and vice versa.

 

I'm not an animal rights activist, however I feel a certain empathy with all life forms, we all share the same DNA after all. We all have our inner fish.

Edited March 28, 2009 by corydoras