RSPB BIG GARDEN BIRDWATCH ALTERNATIVE REPLY

[awaaar]

Personally, I used to think they were a problem, I have asked the question before. But I think I got the impression they were doing major harm to fish stocks in my local river from reading threads on here, magazines, and listening to the rants for my local tackle dealer.

 

I fished this river at the weekend and it was teeming with fish, dace roach, chub and barbel...v.nearly a bite a chuck...the comorants have been ever present since the end of last summer really, so they can't have done that much damage?....

 

Do they do more damage to stillwaters, say rather than rivers?...more natural protection possibly?

 

tight lines - andy

[phil dean]

One of my club lakes has been virtually emptied by a mixture of Mink, otters, cormorants and fish thefts from a group of albanians who joined the club two years a go and tried to take home all they caught (much as you would if the fish bred easily, it's just that up here in the North East, they dont)

 

It's got to the stage where many members have left due to the low stocks, a recent fish survey revealed less than a handful of fish.

 

the committee are fighting with themselves, other members and the EA..........and there are so few fish ponds in the area, that it can't be a shortage of natural food, it's just that this is the nearest fish restaurant that's easy to get to, shallow, and where the fish can't swim downstream....result...no fish

[peter mccue]

There is often a conflict of opinions when it comes to Cormorants, we have some here.

 

We have one poster saying the problem is continental birds settling over here, & that our native birds are still where they should be, on the coast.

 

On the other hand, we have another poster using an analogy that suggests strongly that our native sea going Cormorants are doing the damage because their own food supply has been depleted.

 

The evidence that Cormorants are doing serious damage to fisheries is so widespread that it surely can't be questioned. We can't all be misinformed can we...

 

Individuals catching lots of fish & taking that as evidence that there is a healthy population of fish in the river/lake is not going to get us any nearer the truth either. What you need to see is surveys of entire stretches or consistent match reports showing good weights of siver fish over the water as a whole.

 

Incidentally, while I am not saying our seas are thriving fisheries, up here in the NE it has been a cracking winter for Whiting,Bass & flatties. Not a lot of Cod of course but any amount of bait robbing Cormorant fodder.

 

 

The attitude of the RSPCA & RSPB towards angling is becoming disturbing & their lack of practical help on the Cormorant issue does not ease my sense of foreboding. The RSPB rank & file will readily admit they don't have a lot of respect for fishermen & the RSPCA have come out & said they'd like to see angling banned.

 

Where the RSPB hold sway over a lake, you can bet your bottom dollar that if fishermen are allowed they will be very restricted.

 

Remember the John Wilson video when he was in a bird hide on a trout reservoir, he turned to the RSPB warden & exclaimed 'look at all those Cormorants' warden replied with a smile 'what Cormorants' hmmmmm.

 

One last point, just because the RSPB haven't issued a fatwa on the Cormorants for the benefit of Herons, Kingfishers, grebes etc don't for one minute think that therefore they must be ok.

[Leon Roskilly]

peter mccue:

 

Incidentally, while I am not saying our seas are thriving fisheries, up here in the NE it has been a cracking winter for Whiting,Bass & flatties. Not a lot of Cod of course but any amount of bait robbing Cormorant fodder.

It had me wondering why the seal population around the UK was growing so alarmingly, conflicting with the idea that the seas are overfished.

 

Watching anglers hauling in pouting and small whiting 3 at a time made the penny drop.

 

Removal of large bass, large cod and most other finned predators has led to an abundance of small fish (which the fishermen are not supposed to target).

 

Take away the competing predators and the seals have plenty of grub, and so do the cormorants.

 

If there is an environment that sustains a creature, and where conditions are right, they will expand into it, regardless of whether there is better feeding to be had elsewhere.

 

Pressure of numbers will see to that. All creatures need to find new territory, if its available.

 

Just as collard doves were unknown of in this country, not so long ago, and now are everywhere, so inland cormorants are extending/changing their range, along with many other species whether furred, feathered or scaled, in response to massive environmental changes that are now taking place.

 

As to the RSPB, they are there to protect birds.

 

Their millions come from people whose only concern in donating money is the protection of birds.

 

For the RSPB to go along with the suggestion that birds should be culled for the benefit of fish/anglers, would be mad.

 

The worrying thing is that, for the RSPB to thrive, it is important to have threats to birdlife to campaign against (otherwise the money will dry up, and lots of people who know nothing other than birds will have to find a new job).

 

Anglers demanding the culling of some birds, poisoning others with lead shot, leaving line to strangle others, and baited hooks to ensnare even more, help their cause no end (even though the number of such incidents is miniscule in comparison with the many millions upon millions of angling trips undertaken every year.)

 

Given the opportunity to present themselves as the guardians of birdlife, to a bird loving and donation ready public, the wonder is that they don't jump up and down about the 'horror' of angling even harder!

 

Except that the money flows in well enough now, and many RSPB members themselves are anglers.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[peter mccue]

What worries me, is that we have an organisation that carries so much power in the care of our national birdlife, that other wildlife seem to be becoming expendable until it starts to affect said birds.

 

Out of sight out of mind is a fishes major problem.

 

Anglers influence in the RSPB....virtually nil!

 

Its the public image that prevents both the RSPB & the RSPCA from pushing anti angling further.

[Andy Nellist]

I was talking to an old boy who walked past me whilst I was fishing a river at the begining of last year. He lives in a cottage next to the river but is not a fisherman.

 

I mentioned that there had been several comorants fishing the river when I had arrived. He replied that there had been very large numbers of comorants on lakes and rivers after the second world war and that he could remember going out with his father and shooting them.

 

The main arguement against shooting seems to bve that it won't work. In fact it already did once before sixty years ago.

 

The reason we have comorants again is because the population has not been kept under control in Europe. The reason for that is that they have been made a protected species.

 

Apathy to the introduction and spread of alien species has led many problems in the past and means that decent fishing for our native species is becoming rarer all the time.

 

In my lifetime there has already been a significant impact on our whitefish, rudd, crucian, eel populations. Our native crayfish now seem doomed to extinction.

 

On top of all that we have comorants munching through tonnes of fish every day and damaging large numbers of other fish whilst catching those that they actually eat.I personally caught several Tench over 9lb last year with comornat damage

 

We should stand up and be counted and protect what we have left for the benefit of future generations.

 

Personally I find it astonishing how pathetic and weak the bodies that represent angling have been on this issue and the EA is still busy trying to deal with problems that are beyond redemption such as the crayfish and zander issues.

 

The RSPB has supported the cull of Ruddy Ducks and if we got off out backsides we might be able to persuade them and English Nature to deal with the comorant issue.

 

That we probably will do sweet FA is sadly indicative of the bodies that purportedly represent angling but which seem in reality to have little common purpose or direction.

[Dick Dastardly]

The RSPB.Well here we go.When I am out fishing or just out I enjoy seeing birds just as much as any other wild life.However the way the RSPB puts them (or should I say some of them) on a pedastal pisses me off big time.I have had a lot of dealings in the past with the RSPB in my area and due to this think they are a shower of sh1T.

 

1. The lakes I used to run had a population of over 50 pairs of breeding swans.When a jetski company moved on to share the waters with us I contacted the local RSPB (who own three very large waters next to the lakes in question.No fishing allowed obviously!)hoping to gain their support in stopping the jet skiing.Only to be told "good should move them all on to our lakes"

 

2. Whilst Bassing at Dengemarsh I came across several birds covered in oil and in distress.Contacted the RSPB (office less than 2 mile away)they got me to describe the birds and decided that they were only common Terns and not worth worrying about.

 

3. Heard rumours of the local RSPB warden catching Pike out of the Bird sanctuary lakes and killing them.When I contacted him I asked him why he was doing this and was told its because they eat water birds.It was pointless trying to reason with him so I offered to leave a retaining tank and oxygen bottle with him so that any pike he caught could be placed in it and after a phone call to me I would collect and move to my waters (sect 30's having been sorted)I knew there would be no chance of removing them myself!I was told no as they would only eat the birds in my waters!!There were far to many and needed destroying.Tongue in cheek I told him that there were far to many coots on my lake so I would go and destroy some of them! That night I was visited at home by the Police and as a result lost my shot gun permit!!!!

 

4.I also remember when a pair of rare birds were spotted nesting at Bewl water.The subsequent hounding by twitchers frightened them of!

 

RSPB,IMO a very powerfull body that is highly funded and politicaly supported but is extremely selfish and narrow minded.A greater threat to angling than any group of antis.

[Newt]

The write-up Here seems balanced and offers details on the cormorant species that should prefer coastal waters vs. the species that will almost always prefer inland areas.

[RUDD]

I dont know if I am talking complete dribble but here we go :

 

The young of any species learn and are given instincts through their inherited genes and by copying their parents or mother.

 

A pair of cormorants roost and nest next to an inland water.

Their young copy them and prey on freshwater species without ever even going near the sea.

When old enough the young leave.

Next year the young is old enough to breed.

It breeds with another cormorant which has had the same upbringing.

They reproduce and the cycle goes on and on.

 

THIS IS CALLED EVOLUTION

 

The process of evolution has started among the cormorant population from being SEA hunting birds

to FRESHWATER hunting birds.

 

There must already be hundreds of these birds that have NEVER been near the sea.

 

The argument that there is not enough food in the sea is total cr@p.

Try catching a north sea cod at the moment.

You cant.

The reason is because they are feeding on the monster size shouls of sprats and herrings.

 

Most fish species in the north sea are thriving due to the lack of natural predators which are mainly cod in the north sea.

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RUDD:

The 24th and 25th Jan 2004 was the RSPBs big garden birdwatch.

I did submit a proper survey on the website : The bird survey

I also submitted a survey under the name of the angry fisherman with an address near to Alton water, near Ipswich Suffolk.

I did not mark down any species as being seen and as cormorants were not listed I put the following in the comments box:

 

There were about 80 cormorants on my lake which should not be there as they are sea birds. They are also a threat to native species like Grebes or Kingfishers as they are taking to many fish.

When are you going to admit the damage these alien birds are doing to inland waterways, fisheries and eco systems.

Native species of fish such as Dace and Roach are now under threat due to the amount that cormorants eat in a day (approx 2 to 3 pounds per bird) which in turn is causing their natural predators, Perch and Pike to also start to come under threat.

 

You soon approved culls on Hedgehogs and Ruddy Ducks that threatend native birds so why not approve a cull on cormorants which are a very big threat to all fish eating birds and every species of fish in the UK.

---

Rudd

 

I'm with you on this .... but don't get me started on those pecking cormorants again (see the other threads )

 

It seems to me that a lotta peeps who hold strong views one way or another about cormorants either don't actually have a problem with them where they angle, or don't own or have an interest in a fishery where the pecking cormorants are devouring all the pecking fish. :mad:

 

I got me an EA licence to shoot a certain number of the peckers 3 down and quite a few to go

_________

 

DG

 

[ 04. February 2004, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]