Is there "life" after death?

[corydoras]

Cory, we have crossed swords on Big Bang before - just as I don't believe in gods, so I don't believe the Big Bang theory provides a satisfactory answer for the beginning of things...

But Vagabond the Big Bang Theory does not set out to explain the begging of the Universe any more that The Theory of Evolution sets out to explain abiogenesis. We cannot see 'behind' the Cosmic Background Radiation and may never be able to.

[corydoras]

A cynical view is that which model/hypothesis is followed often depends more upon the likelihood of a research grant than anything else.

Perhaps, but I am a sceptic, not a cynic. There is a difference.

[corydoras]

Interesting Chesters. Maybe I should put it another way. It has been proven that at the point of death, the body "loses" an amount of weight (I forget the exact figure) but that "spirit" (or soul or whatever you want to call it)leaves the body at the point of death.

Religion was described by one as a cult - I would suggest that they consult Websters or some other reliable dictionary and look up the two words and see the difference for themselves (why should I?)

 

This argument has been going on for over 2000 years and one debate is not going to settle it.

It is funny but people who believe don't go around saying "you can't go around saying you are secular!" But those who don't believe INSIST that they know better and ask believers to PROVE the existence of God. Maybe in another 1000 years we will have progessed (??) far enough to do just that!

In the last 1000 years items have been discovered which prove that a lot of names and events mentioned in the Bible. Sceptics don't believe that, saying that it isn't "proof" (what is?) well as they are still searching, maybe they will find something irrefutable!

KB The archaeological evidence for events described it the bible are sketchy to say the least, but even if it were comprehensive this would still not be an argument for the existence of god or gods. Jesus was supposed to have came from Nazareth, a town that we now know did not come into existence until some 200 years after his death. The Israelites spent 40 years in the desert and left not one trace.

 

We now know that Homer's Troy was a real place and not just a legend. Does that prove to you that Zeus and Apollo are real gods?

[Vagabond]

Big Bang Theory does not set out to explain the begging of the Universe

 

No ? (Actually I said "the beginning of things" - deliberately being far less specific)

 

Then why were you so scornful of a poster that asked "what happened before the Big Bang ?"

If that question has no meaning (cos, as you said, there was nothing before BB) , then....

 

What is the difference between my reference to "BB being the beginning of things" and your assertion "there was nothing before BB" ?

 

I think you are just playing with words here.

[corydoras]

No ? (Actually I said "the beginning of things" - deliberately being far less specific)

 

Then why were you so scornful of a poster that asked "what happened before the Big Bang ?"

If that question has no meaning (cos, as you said, there was nothing before BB) , then....

 

What is the difference between my reference to "BB being the beginning of things" and your assertion "there was nothing before BB" ?

 

I think you are just playing with words here.

Scornfull? Sorry if I came over that way, 'twas not my intention at all. If Emma really did publish a good peer reviewed paper on what happened in the first 10^-35th of a second that is hidden from us behind the CMB the she would indeed be up for a Nobel.

 

On the other hand one can't sensibly ask 'what happened before the BB' because in our current understanding of things time itself did not exist before the BB, there is no before.

Edited July 28, 2009 by corydoras

[Emma two]

All this talk of Wizards - where does that come from? Small minds that cannot comprehend that WE are NOT the end all and be all of the Universe? People that will believe in wizards, but not in the afterlife!!

 

 

The 'wizard' come from your bible and similar trashy fantasy books. An invisible man in the sky who creates worlds?

 

As for an afterlife, I havnt noticed anyone in here saying that they are wholly convinced that there isn't one, (we by definition of living don't know.) and the only one who is so positive that there is one is you. Now you can huff and puff and be rude and sarcastic, and you probably will be, it's what you do. However that approach is unlikley to convince anyone that you are right.

[GlennB]

Now, I will tell you something that I have told nobody else - As some of you know, I lost my cat a short while ago, and we lost Brenda's retired guide dog las week.

I bought an electric plug-in door bell so that if Brenda needed me she could ring the bell and I could do whatever it was that was needed.

the evening of the day Ingwe (my cat) was put down, the bell rang without Brenda ringing it! It happened again the following day when we had visitors. That night my fire alarm went off and I checked and the house and all was normal, so said out loud for the cat NOT to play with the alarm system as that was scaring me. The next morning the bell went off again! Now I bought the system sealed with a 'ding-dong' chime, but this time it went off with a Westminster chime!

When Brenda's guide dog was put down, I asked Ingwe to ring the bell when wheat arrived. I had gone to the shop and as I got back and walked, in Brenda was talking to neighbour who had 'dropped in' - the bell in the bedroom rang! and the neighbour heard it.

We have a young lady clean the house for us and she house-sits when we are away. When we got back from Rheepham she told us that the little cat we have (the only one left!) had gone 'walkabout' so she asked Ingwe to chase her into the house. about 30 seconds later the little cat came screaming into the house, just as if something was chasing her. Jemma (the young lady) said "thanks Ingwe" and closed the door!

How did this happen?

 

Not too difficult.

A few years ago I bought cordless door chimes which would sometimes go off when there was absolutely nobody on the street of our tiny village (tipping rain, blizzards etc to keep kids at home). Several times I dashed out and looked up+down. Nobody. I suspected that something like a car remote locking key was hitting the same frequency. We weren't very far from the pub car park. The 'chime tone' selection, I dunno. Maybe it was faulty.

 

And last year a close friend buried her beloved cat of many years, after finding her at the side of the road, having apparently been hit by a car. Later the same day her cat walked in, demanding dinner. Sian had buried someone else's cat and had to track down the owners to let them know.

In fact I once picked up one of 'our' cats from the pavement down from where we lived, as ours lived out the back of a line of terraced houses and never went near the road. Walking towards our house I realised something was wrong. It wasn't our cat at all, just damn similar looking.

 

Look for mysterious, mystical connections and you'll probably find them. But it's based on a desire to find them, not evidence.

[Emma two]

Cory and Vagabond, I am impressed with your understanding all all this 'outer spacy' stuff (seriously, I'm not being flippant), and I wouldn't dream of suggesting which of you is more plausable, but both of you make a more convincing case then any religious explanation.

[Alan Stubbs]

I'm not a theoretical scientist, but my partner studied astrophysics and in order to have a two-way conversation, I had to do a hell of a lot of speed-reading in order to keep up!

 

If light travels at a measurable speed....I'm told it does, then telescopes which see furthest obviously see furthest back in time. I understand that the Hubble's successor is being built specifically to be able to se the furthest possible objects - and therefore the oldest, possibly back to the creation.

 

That's all quite straightforward, however, the interpretation of the data must be open to question, the computers are programmed by humans, humans disagree, and how are people to know whose interpretation is correct if data conflicts? After all, Fred Hoyle has been largely pooh-poohed for calling it the 'Big bang' - which he allegedly did as an insult, which opposed the steady state theory propounded by Hoyle himself, Willy Fowler, Thomas Gold and Margaret Burbridge. The problem is, they are two theories...just that, theories.

 

I read 'The big Bang Theory' by Karen C. Fox which explained the idea in layman's terms - and I still struggle to understand it!

Edited July 28, 2009 by Alan Stubbs

[kleinboet]

Sorry to disapoint you with your (to you) well reasoned explanation. Ingwe had had an operation about a year ago for a cancerous cyst on his ear, it left an unusual scar on the ear and as it was the same vet that put him down, there was absolutely no chance that the cat was not the "right" cat!

 

The plug-in bell push was bought some two years ago and had NEVER gone off without Brenda ringing it (and that is through electrical storms etc.) so how come just at that very time that he no longer was with us and just when we asked him to tell us when Wheat arrived? Coinidence I DON'T THINK SO!!

 

Jemma2 Thank you for finally showing your total ignorance in your posting! You said that the Bible was a trashy fantasy novel. By doing that you have just called every archaeologist, every historian and every believer a liar!

The Bible mentions Nebuchadnezzar, Herod, Saul, solomon and many others that have been PROVED that they lived! Yet you say it is a trashy novel!

I don't need to say any more you've said it for me!

 

By the way - please enlighten me where Jesus, the Disciples or anyone of the true prophets call themselves WIZARDS as you say it comes from the Bible!!