Would you claim a record?

[Kappa]

I'd like the record list to be as accurate as possible, but I don't need to know exactly where each fish is from or whether the captor 'deserved' it. I don't care what the captor's name is, either.

 

I can kind of see what you mean. Worms made a goodpoint however most places I fish I'd do very well to find any witnesses and I don't carry a sack etc. You could still report the capture but not claim it and therefore give no details at all!

 

Rich

[Wordbender]

Fair enough Terry, but what would you say to the guy who has just caught the new record Bream? He was quite obviously not fishing for one, wasn't even sure what he had hooked, but absolutely delighted with the result. Perfectly valid catch by any standards.

 

Had he simply returned it then we (all anglers) would never had known of its existence.

 

Den

 

Two things, Den; first the question was 'would you claim a record?...' and that means making a personal choice, which I did. Secondly, while I don't know the circumstances of the catch you've cited, if the chap was fishing for carp, then I don't regard it as 'perfectly valid', mate, for the reasons I've given.

 

When I fish for carp I use the rigs, baits, locations and tactics that I know help me to avoid bream, if bream are a factor. When I catch bream in spite of doing all I can to avoid them, I absolutely can't regard this as an achievement. If anything it's a failure, and just because I happened to fail with a big bream I could still never claim credit, or a record, for failing in what I set out to do.

 

As I say, others may feel differently, but I could not be any other way, because the process and overall satisfaction of my fishing is far more important to me than the size of the fish I catch.

[poledark]

Surely that is the point of it all Terry. How do you "avoid" big bream/Tench/Eels from picking up a bait "meant for carp" Exactly the same baits and rigs will catch all of these if used intentionally in the same lake. I know guys who use 25mm boilies and still catch bream and tench while "fishing for carp", in exactly the same way as I sometimes use a maggot/method feeder "for carp". I really don't see how you can be selective, unless you can see the fish.

 

 

As for myself, I make no bones about it, when I am fishing, I am happy to catch anything that picks up my bait, and if it is a whopper of any species, then I consider it a fair catch.

 

As an example of this, my second trip the the Kennet, ostensibly for Barbel, I fished an unknown swim and caught barbel/perch/chub and a carp, all on the same hair rigged luncheon meat rolled thro' the weedy channels. It is possible that they could have all been PB's, maybe one may have been record sized. They weren't of course, but all valid catches in my book, and I defy anyone to say otherwise.

 

There is of course another dimension to this claiming a record, and that is financial. A considerable sum of money can be earned from catching one, and I would have to give that more than serious consideration.

 

Den

Edited November 1, 2009 by poledark

[wayne baker]

I quite agree Den.

We all go fishing for pleasure at the end of the day. If you happen to be targeting carp and you happen to have a few obliging tench or big bream in your swim. Then all the merrier. The nature of carp fishing nowadays with the tactics most people employ. The above is inevitable.

Most people label themselves as a certain type of angler, EG carp angler, predator angler, specimen hunter etc. At the end of the day if you caught it, You caught it.

My best bream was caught whilst carping and also my best eel. But i still count them.The one thing that does get my hackles up is carp anglers that catch say a nice tench or bream and treat them almost contempt. I have seen this a few times and going back about twenty years or so i remember fishing a gravel pit. And the guy down a couple of swims caught a 13ib plus bream. And his attitude towards it was just total hatred. I had to have a word with him and tell him he had probably caught the best fish in the lake. But he didnt want to know. All he was worried about was the slime in his nice tarty net.

[SpecimenSean]

I know a small pond that next to no one fishes. This 1/2acre pond im sure contains a record breaking Crucian, probably more than 1, and also BIG Orfe. This pond is a fish haven and also a haven for the small amount of people who fish it. I love walking through the woods, getting on the bank at 4am in the summer, wet grass and mist and plenty of bubbles. But if this pond was well known, considering its location (its that hard to find) and its small size, it would soon be overrun. For that fact, i would never claim a record from a pond like this.

 

A commercial fishery would be a different story altogether though, and i'd happily claim a record for a fish i wasnt "primarily" fishing for. There arent many (if any) methods that only catch 1 fish. Tench when carping, perch when piking, you know!

 

 

 

My first proper post, made it a good un!

[Dick Dastardly]

A lot of this I suppose depends on what the individual regards the record list to mean. Yes in some cases record fish are taken by design and a lot of effort and skill has been required.In others they are total flukes.But how would you decide this? For me a record list is just as others have said,a historical record of the sizes that us anglers have been able to catch different species to. As such it is imperative that they are accurate in the details of weight and species identification but not necessarily that important if they were intentionally targeted or even (although nice to know for reference/interest etc) to know exactly where they come from.

 

However back to the question of "would I claim a record". My basic answer would be yes if it was possible. But it then becomes complicated! I wouldn't claim if it would latter affect mine or friends fishing,break any club/syndicate publicity rules.cause the owner/fishery manager (as long as I liked/respected them) any problems or foremost if it would have any adverse affect on the fish itself ie having to be retained for a long period or killed for identification,or subsequent adverse fishing pressure.

 

Ive been lucky enough to fish/have fished waters where making any claim wouldn't be possible due to the above.My views were that If I did get a real lump I would ensure that it was weighed,photographed and witnessed accurately and by acknowledged "experts"(?) then the only people who would know would be a close group of friends whose confidence I could rely on and indeed whose "admiration" (?) would mean something to me.I would do it like this just in case the situation/restriction/reasons for not reporting it openly ever changed and the capture could then take its rightful place.

 

The financial side? Well despite what many think being on Disabled Living Allowance doesn't give you anything to play with! hard enough to just survive on! A big fish (well marketed) can bring a lot of financial and material gains......................but also a lot of grief! Would have to think very hard about this side of the question but I think my priorities would still remain with the initial reasons for or for not claiming in the first place.

 

I intentionally didn't go to much into the credibility/deserved or not/intentional or accidental catch issue as its not really relevant to whether a claim is made or not but its certainly both an individual opinion and an interesting topic that maybe we could debate on another thread so not to bog this one down?

[Jeffwill]

Two things, Den; first the question was 'would you claim a record?...' and that means making a personal choice, which I did. Secondly, while I don't know the circumstances of the catch you've cited, if the chap was fishing for carp, then I don't regard it as 'perfectly valid', mate, for the reasons I've given.

 

When I fish for carp I use the rigs, baits, locations and tactics that I know help me to avoid bream, if bream are a factor. When I catch bream in spite of doing all I can to avoid them, I absolutely can't regard this as an achievement. If anything it's a failure, and just because I happened to fail with a big bream I could still never claim credit, or a record, for failing in what I set out to do.

 

As I say, others may feel differently, but I could not be any other way, because the process and overall satisfaction of my fishing is far more important to me than the size of the fish I catch.

 

 

If you lay a big table of bait then other species will turn up and surely no one should be surprised if a bream wakes them up in the middle of the night.....and if it was a record fish they should be pleased irrespective of the specie.

 

The fish has taken many years to successfully get to that "extreme" weight and is unique.

 

Fishing for carp can be obsessional..... to the exclusion of other species... I take my hat off to anyone who camps out a whole weekend in all weathers in pursuit of their quarry but some carpers let themselves down by their attitude to "nuisance fish", some of which would be a fish of a life time for others.

[Wordbender]

Surely that is the point of it all Terry. How do you "avoid" big bream/Tench/Eels from picking up a bait "meant for carp" Exactly the same baits and rigs will catch all of these if used intentionally in the same lake. I know guys who use 25mm boilies and still catch bream and tench while "fishing for carp...

 

True, Den, but there are baits and rigs that catch more carp and fewer tench, bream and eels, mate. I've caught bream on 24mm boilies, tiger nuts and once on a roach head meant for eels, but very few, whereas I've caught dozens of bream on smaller boilies, corn and maggots. I've caught just four, albeit huge, bream on the 360 rig, plus two monster tench and exactly no eels. So, by choosing known feeding areas where carp dominate and using baits and rigs that bream, tench and eels have tended to avoid rather than relish, I can be more selective than if I just used bream-friendly baits presented in a bream-friendly way. Also, as I keep saying, there's no skill of any kind required to play and net a large tench, bream or eel on 15lb line and a 3lb TC rod. They are simply winched in, aren't they?

 

Thus, if I do hook a bream, tench or eel while I'm fishing for big carp, my avoidance strategies have failed and I'm left cranking in a fish that's massively out-gunned on the gear I'm using. Honestly, I simply can not gain any satisfaction from a capture like that. When targeting a particular species, my satisfaction comes from finding the fish, working out where it feeds, offering a bait and rig that gives me the best chance of a pick-up from the type of fish I'm after, then playing it on the appropriate tackle. For me, it's about bringing it all together and enjoying the process and the result. Catching a bream when I've done absolutely everything I can to catch a big carp really doesn't give me the pleasure I look for from my angling. As for financial considerations, that isn't a factor and never would be.

 

No Den, my angling is my own selfish pleasure taken, all too infrequently, in a world of working my bits off and taking care of my family. I'll continue to enjoy it on my own terms, mate, and I hope everyone else does the same.

 

All the best.

[Andy Macfarlane]

........my avoidance strategies have failed and I'm left cranking in a fish that's massively out-gunned on the gear I'm using. Honestly, I simply can not gain any satisfaction from a capture like that. When targeting a particular species, my satisfaction comes from finding the fish, working out where it feeds, offering a bait and rig that gives me the best chance of a pick-up from the type of fish I'm after, then playing it on the appropriate tackle. For me, it's about bringing it all together and enjoying the process and the result. Catching a bream when I've done absolutely everything I can to catch a big carp really doesn't give me the pleasure I look for from my angling. As for financial considerations, that isn't a factor and never would be.

 

That is so true.

 

Although not the same species you've mentioned, I've caught massive eels, perch and brown trout when pike fishing and I didn't get nearly the same pleasure from the capture as I would have had I specifically targeted them using appropriate tackle.

 

I've had 4lb brownies, 2lb perch and huge eels by the shed-load on pike tackle and although the fish themselves are quite something to behold, I cannot get over the fact I gained no pleasure from the fight or the fact I caught such fish by accident, rather than by design.

 

If I'm waggler/quiver fishing a commercial, I can expect to catch numerous species. That's different and at least each species would account for itself on light float/feeder tackle.

 

....andy....

[Wordbender]

I've had 4lb brownies, 2lb perch and huge eels by the shed-load on pike tackle and although the fish themselves are quite something to behold, I cannot get over the fact I gained no pleasure from the fight or the fact I caught such fish by accident, rather than by design.

 

In the shell of a nut, Andy.