Fox Hunting Vote Before Easter 2002

[Dave Hill]

Tommy,

 

Good answers... I was not aware there was an effective humane method of trapping foxes... it will take me a while to digest this information and see how it affects my attitude towards hunting. If this is the case, hunting and inhumane means of culling foxes might be unnecessary... my dilemna then is... does it matter that it is not necessary? After all, angling isn't necessary either!

 

Your point about perception is spot on, I just feel sad that we are in a way being forced to play politics. We seem to have to win the image war instead of winning the argument!!!

 

This to me does not make sense... Are the public really that gullible? Sadly, I suspect they are...

[TheDacer]

Excalibur:

By the way, hare coursing, just like bullfighting,and badger baiting is disgraceful, sickening, and immoral.

Nice one Excalibur!

 

Good to see we agree on some things

[waterman1013]

In my personal opinion the danger to angling, once hunting with dogs is banned, is not an outright ban on fishing with rod and line but the danger the antis present to lone anglers on canals and riverbanks.

 

Assuming that the antis will simply move on to the next target, they are most like to target anglers rather than shooters. After all would you try to sab a shooter in the field while he is carrying a gun? No!

 

You would look for older or younger anglers, on their own or in small groups, to harass.

 

That is the real danger to angling because parents who now allow their children to fish on their own will stop them once the level of violence against the person increases to such a level as to be expected rather then the exception. Angling will then die because there will be no, or insufficient, younger people coming into the sport. A lot of older anglers will give up rather than face the dangers imposed on them by the sabs and before you know it the Government will not need to legislate, the sabs will have done the job for them.

 

The Government knows this, which is why the Home Office is unable or unwilling to respond to letters of concern directed to them. Local police numbers are now sufficiently low to prevent any danger of the police attending a river bank to protect an individual, if called and if anglers respond in kind they will face increased violence and a good chance of being taken into custody as the villain. See the recent history of legitimate hunters defending themselves and their property.

 

If you still feel angling is going to be safe after the ban on hunting with dogs then read this again. Carefully.

 

You cannot, logically, support angling and be against hunting and/or shooting. All three sports exploit animals for human pleasure. The hows and the whys are of no consequence in any argument. Anglers, other than coarse anglers, kill their prey in greater or lesser numbers. So, if you are opposed to hunting because the fox dies you must also be against sea angling and game fishing. If you are, then in my book you are not an angler.

 

If you are opposed to hunting because “It is a bunch of toffs on horseback.” Then it shows how little you know about the people that make up the majority of hunters. And it is a class problem, for you, which you have to deal with.

 

If you are opposed to hunting because the fox is torn to bits by the dogs then you need to watch what happens to all prey in nature. Surprisingly the predator tears the prey to bits, often after a chase.

 

The hunt lobby have failed to put the strongest argument in favour of hunting. That is that foxes which are hunted, and therefore disturbed, do not breed at the same rate as those which remain undisturbed. Hence the hunt keeps the population down and under some form of control by the act of hunting, not killing. Hunts actually kill very few foxes.

 

Even though we may not hunt or even support hunting, to protect the future of our sport we need to defend the rights of hunters against the majority view. After all 33% of the great British public would be happy to see angling banned tomorrow. (Daily Telegraph research 1998)

 

I doubt this posting will change too many minds but I hope it might get some of you thinking through your position as anglers.

 

I hate bunkers so I have just put on a tin hat.

 

Mike

[pinky]

i just have to reply to this horrors of the kill thing.

a pack of hounds killing a fox,a pack of wild dogs killing a sheep,a pack of wolves killing a deer.

whats the difference?one has a group on horseback following

so we do not have the wild dogs and wolves here but the continent has.

how many watch wildlife programs where somthing is torn apart?

ok its grisly but it is natural guns and poison are not.

seems we can have organic food but not organic pest control.

maybe i am nuts but i cannot figure the logic behind a ban.

[Andrew]

Erm sorry lads i"m not getting involved in this debate, got better things to worry about than a bunch of toffee nosed,upstarts chasing after foxes

[davidP]

Tommy:

There is no evidence whatsoever of angling being under threat at present or in the future.

The Campaign To Abolish Angling, PISCES, PETA - they're already on the case. The first 2 are small but know exactly how to create maximum publicity (plenty of practice with hunting, vivisection, transportation of live animals etc). PETA on the other hand are a professional lobbying firm. They are not as most people think a charity but an extremly wealthy and very militant professional animal rights organisation. Just look at all the names they already bandy about in the their publicity and at their stunts. Pop stars, tv stars, film stars, models etc etc - just the kind of people that impressionable kids will listen to and believe.

 

I'm afriad that if you really think there is no evidence for angling being under threat then you are in for a nasty surprise. Once hunting is gone all those people who've been campaigning against it won't just retire - they'll find something else. I suspect that the shooting of birds, deer and the like will be next, mainly because it's another sport that's often seen as being an upper class sport and there is no doubt that class war as an exteremly strong and emotive issue for many people. I fully expect however that a significant minority will chose fishing as a target, and we'd better be ready for it!

[chesters1]

its a pity that fox meat tastes like ...well er fox meat then we could farm them ,the fences would have to be a bit higher though , they could be fed on refuse etc the foxes could eat the meat and leave the tins and plastic for the goats ( what use are goats???) mix that with some dung beatles and no more landfill ,ecology at its best

[Peter Sharpe]

First of all, PETA revealed themselves to be an ineffective joke last time they tried their "media blitz" here, and were made laughing stocks on every debate they appeared in.

 

Secondly, as the hunters claim that hunting is more humane than shooting, the answer to all their problems suddenly becomes crystal clear. Don't shoot those unwanted dogs, release them out in the countryside, then chase them down with horse and hounds so that they can die with a happy smile on their little doggy muzzles.

[Vagabond]

Waterman has already said much of what I intended to post. Every angler should read his post carefully.

 

My parents were against angling on religious grounds, so I got a good leathering each time I returned from fishing if they found out that was what I had been doing - my tackle was kept at friends' houses.

 

This is probably the reason I value my hunting shooting and fishing so much. As far as I am concerned it is my instinct to hunt, shoot and fish - I concentrate on fish only because mammoths were extinct before I was born!

 

One point to add to Watermans lucid argument - whatever happens to a fox that does not get "torn to pieces by dogs". There are no hospices for elderly infirm foxes - when it can no longer defend itself it is likely to get "torn to pieces" .......by other foxes!

[poledark]

Not really relevent I know but,hundreds, no it must be thousands, of foxes are killed on the roads each year so why not ban cars as well?

I expect that quite of them are driven by Toffs

 

No to be serious, life is changing very rapidly and most of the younger (under 30) people do not associate pictures of scarlet huntsmen as a scene which typifies all that is good about England.

They live sanitised lives, very few of them ever visit the countryside on a regular basis, the old urge to wander and explore seems to have gone from the majority of youngsters.

Camping is seen as wimpy and most of them would sooner puff weed or pop pills for their highs.

They sit in front of their computer aided games and smash empires and all manner of nasty beasts, it is violence all the way,car smashes, plane crashes, anything with violence in it!

 

They then have the nerve to tell us that chasing a fox on horseback is cruel.

Half of them are so blooming fat that even if they do get to fish it's got to be sedentary like carp fishing.

 

I'm glad I grew up when I did.

 

Den