Carp in distress?

[larsagi2010]

Our local fishery has been experiencing a similar problem.

 

I use size 12 Barbless hooks for Carp fishing, They have never straightened and on a bolt rig if the bait gets taken I nearly always land them telling me the hook is more than adequate. Recently however there has been an influx of people using not only Barbed hooks, but large ones at that (Size 4's and 6's!!!)

 

Now considering the biggest fish in there is about 15-18lb and the chances of catching only the biggest fish are slim to none. I see no reason why such large/Barbed hooks are used.....

 

In my opinion size 4 and 6 are for sea fishing Not Carp!!!!

 

Unless maybe I was fishing a ''Specimen lake'' with only Carp above 20lb... Then it would be a little different.

 

But erm.... Yep, sadly I too am seeing Carp with excessive damage to there mouths as a result of oversized hooks and of course the barbs.

 

Although I now use Barbless on any commercial water (Regardless of rules) I do use a ''Micro Barb'' when fishing for larger species on the Canal (Mainly because its so isolated where I go the fish have probably never been caught... And never will again)

 

How long until ''Barbed Hooks'' become banned?????

 

Not long I am sure

[Steve Burke]

How long until ''Barbed Hooks'' become banned?????

 

Not long I am sure

 

I actually ban barbless hooks on one of my lakes. For the reason this is what I normally post on the subject of barbed v barbless:

 

"In my opinion it's horses for courses and depends on the species/circumstances. It also depends on the size and design of the hooks themselves.

 

In my experience barbless hooks tend to do less damage on unhooking (especially by inexperienced anglers), whilst barbed hooks can do more damage during striking and playing.

 

Why barbed hooks cause more damage then is often debated.

 

Some years ago I was also of the opinion that there should be no differences between barbed and barbless hooks, with for instance each penetrating equally. However, like a number of other experienced perch anglers, I found that barbless hooks were causing the death of some perch, a species that has vital organs near the surface. Obviously I was wrong, so what could the problem be?

 

At the time I was in the tackle trade and so talked about the matter with a hook manufacturer.

 

They pointed out that hooks often go in at an angle and thus, although the distance penetrated is the same, the point of the hook doesn't always reach that far below the surface of the skin.

 

However the angle can subsequently change, especially during the playing of the fish. A barbed hook would tend to stay in the same place and at the same angle. On the other hand a barbless one would be more likely to move and thus the angle change, with the point of the hook possibly ending up further from the surface.

 

Additionally, as barbless hooks can move about more easily, they would be more likely to pierce vital organs anyway.

 

This suggestion seemed to be a logical explanation.

 

However, whatever the reason, what to me is more important is results in the field - and these showed that barbless hooks are not the best for perch.

 

Only a tiny barb seems to be needed, and the pattern of hook I prefer for perch fishing has a miniscule one. In fact the barb on the size 6 is about the same size as a normal microbarbed size 16!

 

Having said that, the state of the mouths of some UK fish is deplorable. This is all too often the case on overfished waters where fish are caught repeatedly, especially by beginners. If I managed a commercial water (God forbid!) I might well insist on barbless hooks for this reason.

 

On the other hand, an increasing number of specimen waters are now banning barbed hooks.

 

At Wingham I allow a free choice on the Carp Lake as it doesn't contain perch. However the Coarse Lake does, and here I ban barbless hooks above size 10. In each case I state that I prefer microbarbs.

 

So if you want to come to the next Forum Fish-In at Wingham, you'll either have to obey the fishery rules or I'm afraid decide not to come!"

Edited October 12, 2010 by Steve Burke

[Anderoo]

In my opinion size 4 and 6 are for sea fishing Not Carp!!!!

 

Hook size should be matched to bait size, nothing to do with size of fish expected. When I use whole lobs I use a wide gape size 6, whether I expect 40lb carp, 3lb perch or 1lb chub.

[Tigger]

Barbed hooks are no worse than none barbed and do less damage if taken out correctly and with care. Most damage is done to a fishes mouths by rough unhooking and the majority of it what i've seen is on commercials where there are a lot of beginners to fishing who ain't got a clue about fish welfare, plonkers who simply don't give a sh*t and there's alot of matches being held. Before the matchmen get on their hight horses and start moaning ....it's true.

[Fours]

Barbed hooks are no worse than none barbed and do less damage if taken out correctly and with care. Most damage is done to a fishes mouths by rough unhooking and the majority of it what i've seen is on commercials where there are a lot of beginners to fishing who ain't got a clue about fish welfare, plonkers who simply don't give a sh*t and there's alot of matches being held. Before the matchmen get on their hight horses and start moaning ....it's true.

Some really good and valid points I'm sure chaps.Thanks for your thoughts.

As I've said previously, I don't get off on commercial waters.As alluded to by several posts, it is the mentality of some (not all, let's be fair) of the 'hole-in-the-ground' brigade that makes the experience unsavoury.

Why, for example, do a large majority of them want to land the fish in record-breaking time??

Surely the pleasure comes from the fight?

Could this rough treatment be a contributory factor alone?

[AddictedToScopex]

Why, for example, do a large majority of them want to land the fish in record-breaking time??

It is so they can see how much it weighs and shout all around the lake to their mates and generally get up everyone else's nose.

[Fours]

It is so they can see how much it weighs and shout all around the lake to their mates and generally get up everyone else's nose.

You forgot to say "in an aggressive manner".

Each to his own.Not for me.

[AddictedToScopex]

Each to his own.Not for me.

I went down to a pond i used to enjoy fishing on sunday to practise wallis casting and just have a bit of a fish and after paying a fiver lasted around an hour and a half before leaving. I was just not at home there anymore. I packed up and went straight to the river

Edited October 11, 2010 by AddictedToScopex

[Rutilis Volaticus]

A secondary factor is the use of overly strong tackle.

Personally, I reckon that's a very major part of it indeed. A human being can impart a hell of a lot of force onto the line, and without adequate shock absorption it strikes (no pun intended) me as entirely plausible that an over-enthusiastic angler with excessively butch kit could do a hell of a lot of damage to a fish simply by trying to set the hook and reel it in, possibly without even landing said fish. I'm pretty sure a little Mythbusters-style experimentation with rods of various test curves, lines of various breaking strengths, and a selection of fresh fruit would bear this out.

[Fours]

I went down to a pond i used to enjoy fishing on sunday to practise wallis casting and just have a bit of a fish and after paying a fiver lasted around an hour and a half before leaving. I was just not at home there anymore. I packed up and went straight to the river

Good for you.

They do seem to attract some 'interesting' characters, but like I said not all bad.

Took my lad (12) to a local lake last month, just to catch something and hopefully become bitten.It worked.

Only a small mixed fishery and obviously commercial, but didn't want him to blank on a tougher water.

He now wants to learn some tricks from his Dad on the river.He loved the fishing, but not the setting.

Nuff said.