Bream at night

[Kappa]

Because a bolt rig doesn't guarantee a screaming run

 

Exactly, of the bream I have caught at Wingham not one has given a screaming run. Most have taken little line if any!

 

Rich

[tincatinca]

I was not going to contribute to this thread as there have been some excellent points made by many people with a wealth of experience which has been gained over many years and venues. When I first started to look seriously at the bobbin question in the ultimate bobbin thread it, was driven by fishing at Wingham which is a fairly unusual water both in terms of its topography and fish stock. The first time I fished it which was during an anglers net fish in, I had one of the long lift liners which was quite exciting at the time as the bobbin lifted slowly around 3 feet before slowly dropping back. There was no other visual indication i.e. on the rod tip and I could only deduce at the time that it was a genuine liner. When the bobbin thread started which was some time later and after I had fished the water several times and got to know a bit more about it, a myriad of problems arose which involved swim location, where to fish in the swim, how to pin line to the deck etc in fact everything that is basic except that the topography makes it a bit more complex than most waters. Another issue was wind and tow especially when fishing at range. When looking at bite indication, I quickly came to the conclusion that a long arm swinger was a better solution than the bobbin, the main reason being that it overcame the wind and tow problem and like others it really gets on my wick if the alarms keep going off. Getting on to the line bite issue, one of the key things to me is that if I get a liner, I do not want my rig to move if at all possible and by using a long arm swinger whilst not infallable goes a long way to resolving the problem so if fish bumps into the line, the swinger moves and not the bait. Whilst some have conducted experiments on the effects of forces at various points, it is a very complicated issue with loads of variables that differ everytime dependant on weights at both ends, type of bottom, type of leads type of water, lentgh of line, angle of line, and the effects of friction etc and it would take some very complex equations to get any factual results. Working on simple theory, the force required to shift a weight from the bottom will increase when the angle of line is between the vertical and horizontal planes which in turn in simple theory means that in ideal conditions if you have say a 2oz weight on the bottom and a 2oz load at the end of the swinger then the swinger should move first if a force was applied at the middle of the line. Unfortunately it is possible for fish to bump into the line anywhere where the line is in the water so ideally the greater the differential between the weight of the lead and the weight of the bobbin the better. Where is all this getting to?. In simple terms if a fish takes on a bolt rig with a short hook link it is likely to be hooked but if it runs through the line anywhere between the rod tip and the lead then it can displace the line a considerable distance even to the point of moving line on the baitrunner and it is for this reason alone where the long drop helps to differentiate between a liner and a bite. Again it is not infallable as I have had all my rods wiped out with something big moving through the shallows but for most of the time it does give a good indication and dependant on the individuals belief and personal experience minimises the risk of spooking a fish. On waters other than Wingham then I may well change my approach. If I was fishing at close range then my own preferance would be a float.

[Anderoo]

Exactly, of the bream I have caught at Wingham not one has given a screaming run. Most have taken little line if any!

 

Rich

 

Me too. I have only caught 3, so it's a very small sample size, but one took the bobbin to the rod and held it there (rod tip knocking), one was a lengthy jerky affair with the bobbin bouncing around for a couple of minutes and didn't take any line, and the other took a few inches of line off the baitrunner once the swinger had gone right up to the rod. The line bites on a short drop give much better 'runs' than the real bites on the long drop!

 

There are loads of tench though, so on a short drop you have to ask yourself - is this a line bite from a bream, or a proper bite from a tench?

[Steve Burke]

As for disadvantages of long drop bobbins. There just a pain in the ass on a windy night and in the hands of someone inexperienced with them or asleep, could even be rod losing and maybe even deadly to a fish.

 

Yes, windy weather can be a problem with bobbins. One solution is to use split shot on the cord (or wire in my case) and slide one or more further away from the bobbin so that it rests on the ground and acts as an anchor. Another solution is to switch to swingers, and that's why some of us are switching over to the long arm swingers that Paul (tincatinca) is kindly making for us. These of course are also used on a long drop.

 

As for the bit is your post I've put in bold, I'd simply ask how come?

[Dick Dastardly]

I "anchor" my bobbins in the same way Steve does.Strangely neither of us have seen others doing this and we came up with this independently. You still get the drop back indication (as the bobbin is still above the ground) and even though you are adding extra weight you don't need to use much as its on the deck. Keeps them stable.

 

In exposed swims (ie stuck out on a platform) or extremely windy conditions I to use the long arm "Swingham" indicators.Ive not actually needed to use these at Wingham yet but they did the job perfectly while I was fishing a very exposed pit on the Marsh after big roach this winter.

[lutra]

It's true they can be a pain on windy nights, which is why I made the long swingers. But then short drop bobbins are also a pain on windy nights.

 

There will be plenty of people at the fish-in who can help with setting up, if people want any help.

 

I would just like to say again that I have had liners on a short drop at Wingham that took line off the baitrunner and looked very much like a screaming run! I have also had bream that just took the bobbin up to the top of a long drop and held it there, taking no line off the baitrunner, the rod tip just nodding. After waiting to see if if it would drop back and be a liner - it didn't - I struck, and caught one. So waiting for a screamer isn't foolproof I'm afraid.

 

I'm not pretending that you won't catch the bream if you use a short drop (several people have), but at Wingham I would definitely say that the long drops make things so much clearer. It would be such a shame if someone at the fish-in has them in their swim and scares them out by striking at a liner!

A short drop bobbin fished tight to the top (drop back only/long range carp style) is the most stable way in wind I've found/seen. Even more stable than short heavy swingers. Its not hanging in mid air free to swing around the same.

 

Seem to me you just don't know what a screamer is, but that's probably because you've got no experience of them. A screaming run doesn't just take 3, 4 or 5 feet of line, it go's and go's and go's, even an idiot would know a fish had run off with his rig.

 

I'll say again from experience bream don't give screaming runs when your hook length is to long on a bolt rig. Its not a problem that is exclusive to the Wingham bream. If you shorten your hook length down to 3" like magic your bites will become much more positive and you will get screaming runs like you have never seen before. It may also help (like Warren Gaunt said) if there is some tension on your line.

 

Once again just so that it is clear. If fish for bream IMO on any water with a hook length just an inch or two more than 3", the chances are your bites won't be positive and may never get any screaming runs.

[lutra]

Yes, windy weather can be a problem with bobbins. One solution is to use split shot on the cord (or wire in my case) and slide one or more further away from the bobbin so that it rests on the ground and acts as an anchor. Another solution is to switch to swingers, and that's why some of us are switching over to the long arm swingers that Paul (tincatinca) is kindly making for us. These of course are also used on a long drop.

 

As for the bit is your post I've put in bold, I'd simply ask how come?

Because if it tangles around your line when its swigging around in the wind and you get a take and your having a kip. Its bye bye rod and fish.

[Kappa]

If I may reply to each point?

 

A short drop bobbin fished tight to the top (drop back only/long range carp style) is the most stable way in wind I've found/seen. Even more stable than short heavy swingers. Its not hanging in mid air free to swing around the same.

 

or if you had read above, you'd know that most members have ways to ensure wind is no issue, e.g. anchored bobbins or swingers

 

Seem to me you just don't know what a screamer is, but that's probably because you've got no experience of them.

 

This is just pig headed unsubstantiated nonsense - yet again.

 

I'll say again from experience bream don't give screaming runs when your hook length is to long on a bolt rig. Its not a problem that is exclusive to the Wingham bream. If you shorten your hook length down to 3" like magic your bites will become much more positive and you will get screaming runs like you have never seen before. It may also help (like Warren Gaunt said) if there is some tension on your line.

 

IMO on any water with a hook length just an inch or two more than 3", the chances are your bites won't be positive and may never get any screaming runs.

 

Maybe your experience but not mine. Plus I believe with very short hooklengths you run the risk of the bait not getting into the breams mouth properly for the bolt rig to work. Given the weight of my bobbins there is plenty of tension.... also I thought your experiments showed there needed to be significant tension on the line before even a light bobbins would move?

 

Dick

[Anderoo]

Two of the 3 were on 4" hooklengths, the other was a bit longer at about 6". I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm genuinely interested - why do you reckon shortening the hooklength by an extra inch would make the bites into screamers?

 

I may not have been clear before, but even though I would describe none of the bites as screamers, it was 100% clear that they were all proper bites.

 

BTW Lutra, what material do you use for your hooklengths?

[Steve Burke]

Because if it tangles around your line when its swigging around in the wind and you get a take and your having a kip. Its bye bye rod and fish.

 

In all the years I've fished with long drops, that includes several decades fishing for big perch, it's never been a problem that couldn't be solved. If the wind gets up, I slide a shot or shots away from the bobbin and use it/them as an anchor as I posted earlier.