Anglers Want Otter Cull...

[Renrag39]

I like the way they squeak.....

 

Renrag

[watatoad]

Incidentally Otters are not naturally migratory creatures and therefore are not likely to have spread at the speed they are spreading without help. Most families of Otters stay in a single area which on an inland waterway can be as much as 12 miles of river.

[Steve Walker]

Incidentally Otters are not naturally migratory creatures and therefore are not likely to have spread at the speed they are spreading without help. Most families of Otters stay in a single area which on an inland waterway can be as much as 12 miles of river.

 

That's a stable population, though - what we are seeing is not migration but expansion as otters reclaim the areas that were emptied of them by man's activities.

[Renrag39]

Unfortunately what we're also seeing is man as a species, introducing and re-introducing otters to where they were. I know that the way they disappeared was not natural in most cases, but their re-introduction can cause problems with population expansion, as it is not a gradual and stable process like it would be otherwise.

Often the ecosystem has adapted to be without Otters and is then rocked when they come back in force, in one go, as opposed to a build up of occasional forays at their territories edge and then a gradual expansion as numbers increase until it becomes 'actual' territory.

 

Please note I have no proof of this but it happens with many other species of animal so I think this scenario is just as likely in Otters.

 

Renrag

[watatoad]

That's a stable population, though - what we are seeing is not migration but expansion as otters reclaim the areas that were emptied of them by man's activities.

 

We may be getting there now but after the legal reintroduction Otters would suddenly appear in areas where they should not be found and a long way from the original areas they were introduced to, perhaps it was magic or the Cormorants giving them a lift. Such reclamation of areas emptied of them perhaps by man and most likely by farmers and their chemical scientific advisers. However the Eels being the main stay the Otter diet have not returned and there you have the real problem.

 

For my two pennyworth if the people advocating and being involved in both the breeding and reintroduction of the Otters were intelligent or even moderately intelligent surely the very first thing they should have done is to re-establish the basic foods and food chain of the Otters, a thing they did not even look at or consider in their narrow minded short term approach to get what they had decided they wanted to do, and to do at any cost to anyone else and without thought or consideration to anyone else or anyone Else's rights.

 

Another thing that puzzles me is where they got the Otters from in the beginning of their breeding program, information about that is very scant on the ground, Oh yes there are vague comments and hints about it but nothing positive or concrete.

[Steve Walker]

If eels aren't present, they will eat other species - we shouldn't forget that eels are also predatory, and that they form part of the total biomass of the river. If there are fewer eels now, it is likely there are more of something else taking their place.

[gozzer]

Unfortunately what we're also seeing is man as a species, introducing and re-introducing otters to where they were. I know that the way they disappeared was not natural in most cases, but their re-introduction can cause problems with population expansion, as it is not a gradual and stable process like it would be otherwise.

Often the ecosystem has adapted to be without Otters and is then rocked when they come back in force, in one go, as opposed to a build up of occasional forays at their territories edge and then a gradual expansion as numbers increase until it becomes 'actual' territory.

 

Please note I have no proof of this but it happens with many other species of animal so I think this scenario is just as likely in Otters.

 

Renrag

 

I would agree if the fall in otter numbers had left a massive void in fish predation, but this was partially filled by the illegal release of mink, (in far greater numbers, than the the reintroduction of otters). From what I can gather, the reintroduction of otters has helped lessen the spread of mink, and in some cases even reduced their numbers. I don't see half the number of mink now that I did 20yrs ago.

Releasing mink in their thousands, or the release of less than 200 otters? I know which I would rather have.

 

Most of the anglers I've met, have never even seen an otter in the wild. They base their opinions on what the angling mags print, or what such 'celebs' as John Wilson spout. Having said that, I find myself in the very strange position of partially agreeing with what 'angling celeb' Keith Arthur has to say.

 

http://www.gofishing.co.uk/Angling-Times/S...and-cormorants/ (although I would say the introduction of any non native species).

 

http://www.gofishing.co.uk/Angling-Times/S...al-carp-waters/

 

 

John.

[Steve Walker]

I find myself in the very strange position of partially agreeing with what 'angling celeb' Keith Arthur has to say.

 

Even a stopped clock, John...

[watatoad]

I would agree if the fall in otter numbers had left a massive void in fish predation, but this was partially filled by the illegal release of mink, (in far greater numbers, than the the reintroduction of otters). From what I can gather, the reintroduction of otters has helped lessen the spread of mink, and in some cases even reduced their numbers. I don't see half the number of mink now that I did 20yrs ago.

Releasing mink in their thousands, or the release of less than 200 otters? I know which I would rather have.

 

Most of the anglers I've met, have never even seen an otter in the wild. They base their opinions on what the angling mags print, or what such 'celebs' as John Wilson spout. Having said that, I find myself in the very strange position of partially agreeing with what 'angling celeb' Keith Arthur has to say.

 

http://www.gofishing.co.uk/Angling-Times/S...and-cormorants/ (although I would say the introduction of any non native species).

 

http://www.gofishing.co.uk/Angling-Times/S...al-carp-waters/

 

 

John.

 

I see nothing wrong or unfair in what you say in fact here is my list of the anglers enemies.

 

People who pollute waterways

People who illegally introduce any species

People who illegally stock waters

People who introduce non native species

People who over stock any venue

Scientists who fail to be scientific

Scientists and those in authority who fail to be honest

Anyone advocating any reintroduction or introduction of anything including any species, water extraction schemes and power plants without fully considering the environmental effect and the biodiversity of our waters

Any body in authority that fails to remove non native and/or illegally introduced species, even if that be only by allowing anglers a non return policy

People who would ban angling

People who would put restrictions on anglers without full consultation and a proper detailed and full analysis of the said restriction

Edited June 10, 2011 by watatoad

[Worms]

I read that at least one of the pseudo intelligent self proclaimed scientists is now coming out with the idea that it is Badgers eating the large Carp. Funny really when one considers that Badgers are known as eating small things in point of fact earthworms making up the bulk of their diet.

 

Guess its yet another case of a so called scientist conducting a non scientific survey and twisting the facts because he/she does not like them, I get tired of reading and hearing about this sort of thing.

 

Badgers diet:

 

http://www.waterscape.com/features-and-art...wildlife/badger

 

http://www.badgers.org.uk/badgerpages/badgers-06.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger

 

There is a simple hint

 

Badgers live on or underground away from the possibility of flooding their prime.basic diet earthworms

 

Otters live at the waterside and in the water their prime/basic diet is fish

If you really want to show yourself up as a complete tit you're doing a good job. I said that I found evidence of badgers feeding on carp not that badgers are killing the carp and not otters.

 

Non scientific survey? Again you're totally wrong. The surveys are to standard and requested by an organisation that only employs professionals with a track record for sound surveys.

 

You paint yourself as omniscient toad. In my view you're just an uneducated troublemaker that stirs things up for a bit of fun......whilst having little grip on reality and sadly lacking in knowledge so have to resort to the vagaries of Wikipedia.

 

Here's a more useful hint. Badgers live underground in areas where they won't get flooded out. They'll forage for miles and, as omnivorous opportunists will eat whatever gives them the most nutritious meal for the least expenditure.