How do you tie a paternoster?

[RUDD]

I very rarely ledger and mainly use a running ledger.

I have been told that fish will drop the bait when they feel resistance and should use a paternoster.

I use these for sea fishing but belive course rigs are different.

 

How far up the line (from the feeder or bomb) do you tie your hooklenght.

Do you tie a hooklenght direct to the line or use a length of the main line as a link?

Should the hooklenght be longer than the length of line to the bomb/feeder?

 

I have been told to tie a length of main line with a four turn water knot about six to ten inches above the feeder/bomb and to tie my hooklenght to this making sure it is longer than the lenght of line from the water knot to the bomb/feeder.

Sounds like it will tangle on the cast but I am told it will only tangle if the hooklength is shorter?

 

With sea fishing the hooklenghts are clipped to the line and release when they hit the water.

The tide then straightens them so they dont tangle. This also makes for longer casts as the rigs are aerodynamic.

[phil dean]

Hi rudd, I vary the length of line to the

hook down to as little as 6 inches when the fish are up for it, and in those cases the length of line between knot and feeder is usually only a couple of inches, when bites are harder to get I use a longer hooklength, say 3 feet, and a longer gap between knot and feeder, say 2 feet. The fish then picks up the bait and feeling little resistance may move off, causing an indication on your tip before it feels the weight of the feeder.

 

Much like you I use longer hooklength to knot feeder ratios because I was told to, but, though I do get tangles, which may be caused when winding in, they are rarely bad and the bait is still hanging free at the bottom for a fish to take. When I have used shorter ratios (ie the other way round) line twist has resulted in the hooklength wrapping round the main line/knot part on some occasions (but not always).

 

From the fishes point of view i'm not sure if the ratio matters, though a longer hooklentgh meens they have more chance to feel confident with the bait before any resistance is felt.

 

I'm sure Poledark or other "fishing innovators" will have thought this through and will be more help than me.

 

Cheers.

[*Ant*]

RUDD, this is how I tie them;

 

Take approx 3ft of your chosen hooklength and hold it along side your mainline.

 

Still holding the 2 lines side by side, bring them both back on their self to form a loop. Thread both lines through the loop 3 times to form the knot with 2 tag ends of approx 6in.

 

Cut off the 6in hooklength tag and tie your feeder on to the 6in mainline tag using a snap swivel.

 

Tie your hook onto the long hooklength tag and away you go! You should find that the hooklength should stand proud of the feeder.

 

Failing that you may find the "John Roberts feeder booms" in your local tackle shop. These are mini versions of the type that are used for sea fishing.

 

Ant

[Steve Burke]

Please, please, do not tie up your rigs as above. They used to be considered fine but the message is just beginning to get out that such rigs are unsafe. Unfortunately they still appear in many articles.

 

If the line breaks above the junction knot the fish will be left towing the feeder or ledger weight around. If this gets snagged the fish will be tethered and could well die.

 

There are many alternative safe rigs - I'll leave it others to describe their favourites. For instance Steve Randles has devised what looks like an excellent looped feeder rig to minimise tangles.

 

Regarding running rigs - the secret to avoiding resistance (on stillwaters at least) is to do the reverse of what most recommend. Use a heavy weight. This will stay put and the bite indicator will move instead. If the weight moves, the fish may well feel the resistance and drop the bait. This is especially so with big perch.

 

Both ledger and paternoster rigs have advantages in different situations. However few except predator anglers actually use a true paternoster. Most use a link ledger and call it a paternoster, but it presents the bait totally differently.

 

It's only a true paternoster if the lead link is longer than the hooklength. I'm sorry for being pedantic, but if we're going to discuss rigs, especially without pictures, it's important we're all talking about the same things.

[*Ant*]

Steve

 

If you have had problems or know anyone who's had problems with the rig I described, then fair enough. I for one have never had any problems what-so-ever in what must be thousands of rigs tied this way. It was passed on to me by an angler friend who has used it thousands of times himself with no problems.

 

Granted if tied with lighter line than 3lb and used with a 3lb t/c carp rod, breakages could occure. I will be sticking with the rig I describe and through experience have much confidence in.

 

[Steve Burke]

Ant, my apologies if you think I was being critical. I wasn't, and indeed have use a similar rig myself in the past.

 

However times change and many of us now advocate safer rigs. In fact more and more fishery managers, including me at Wingham, are now banning some of the old rigs. They don't often cause problems, but once is too often as I'm sure you'll agree, especially when there are safe alternatives that are just as good.

 

For some diagrams of safe and unsafe rigs go to http://anglersnet.co.uk/saa/code.htm This contains the SAA/NAA Code of Practice and is full of good advice - so much so in fact that it forms part of the rules at Wingham, and I believe at other waters too.

 

[ 08. May 2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Steve Burke ]

[Steve Burke]

Ant, my apologies if you think I was being critical. I wasn't, and indeed have use a similar rig myself in the past.

 

However times change and many of us now advocate safer rigs. In fact more and more fishery managers, including me at Wingham, are now banning some of the old rigs. They don't often cause problems, but once is too often as I'm sure you'll agree, especially when there are safe alternatives that are just as good.

 

For some diagrams of safe and unsafe rigs go to http://anglersnet.co.uk/saa/code.htm This contains the SAA/NAA Code of Practice and is full of good advice - so much so in fact that it forms part of the rules at Wingham, and I believe at other waters too.

[*Ant*]

Steve

 

I'm sure you would agree that NO rig is 100% safe.

I was just sharing my experience with Rudd, knowing that the rig I describe is, through many many hours of personal experience, reliable and safe. I would never reccommend a set-up which I thought was unsafe or fish un-friendly. Not once have I had a breakage while using it and have landed hundreds of fish including an unexpected carp of 12.5lb on a local canal using 4lb line.

I must stress that a lighter hooklength than the mainline should always be used. My usual strains of breaking strain would be 4lb mainline with a 2.5lb-3lb hooklength, this would ensure that the weakest point would be the knot joining the two lines, as such any breakage would leave the feeder conected to the mainline and not the hooklength.

As I said, no rig is 100% safe, and I see no reason why this rig is any less safe than many others in float and feeder fishing.

I will continue to use this set-up and pass it on to anyone asking advice as my own experiences and findings tell me that, used and tied in the right way, is as safe as it gets.

By all means Steve ban this method on your waters if you disagree as thats your right, but I would be interested if you personally have witnessed any breakages when tied this way.

 

This post is in no way meant as a knock at yourself Steve, just an observation on my behalf.

 

All the best

Ant

 

[ 08. May 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: aanthony ]

[Steve Burke]

Yes, I have come across problems in the past, as have others. I rarely do so now as I seldom fish waters that are pressured.

 

Whilst I accept that the risk is small I'm not prepared to use any rig that's potentially dangerous if there's a practical alternative. In this case there's no disadvantage in using safe rigs and so I now always do so. I'll therefore continue to recommend them.

 

I'd add that many fisheries now ban "fixed leads". This means that rigs tied with a water knot or standard looped feeder rigs aren't allowed on these fisheries, not just at Wingham.

[*Ant*]

I have yet to see a rig of any type that is not "potentially dangerous". These days most of my fishing time is concentrated on carp utilising the safest set-ups possible. With all the latest safety gizzmo's I still couldn't call my rigs 100% safe. Anyone believing they are is sadly misguided.

 

Think we should agree to disagree on this Steve.

 

Here's to the next fish,