Martin Salter and Mark Lloyd fail to deliver again

[andy_youngs]

I've just waded through the FM thread, and I'm struggling to see what the AT is doing wrong (and I'm not a big fan of the AT). It seems to me that you object to a pressure group acting on behalf of angling being partisan rather than willing to put the interests of anglers and paddlers on an equal footing? The AT favours local access agreements while the canoeing lobby favours a universal right of access - what else would you expect?

I would expect the leadership of both organisations to reach a reasonable accommodation, ie, if there are specific locations where canoe access is contested, then both sides should negotiate, and reach a negotiated solution. That doesn't necessarily mean that the canoeists automatically get 12 month a year access. If there are sound environmental reasons why certain stretches of river should be left alone at certain times of year then ok. As long as it's fair.

 

But I have to say Steve, that there is something particularly offensive about a group of fanatical barbel fishermen using public money to stuff a small, environmentally sensitive river with non native fish, and then trying to prevent the public from canoeing down it during the closed fishing season on grounds that it might interfere with the barbels breeding habits.

 

Like it or not, that is the reality of what's going on, and the fact is that they are using the Angling Trust's policy towards navigation rights on inland waterways to justify what they are doing. Sorry mate, but not in my name.

 

If the AT were campaigning to give paddlers precedence everywhere, how would that be in the interests of its membership?

If the AT were to move away from the view that the default legal position is that there is no right to navigate inland waterways without landowners consent, then it would diffuse a bitter dispute. People would stop hurling abuse at each other on the river bank and in forums, and I and great many others would happily sign up to the AT.

 

I think it's a fundamental point that while the presence of paddlers sometimes ruins the fishing, the converse is not true - so the idea that both groups having simultaneous access is equitable is wrong.

You may well be right there Steve. There may well be stretches where it may well be desirable to try and negotiate restricted canoe access on socio economic grounds between say June 16 and September 30 because of the impact it would have on angling.

 

But there is a very big difference between that, and gangs of anglers patrolling the riverbanks shouting abuse at canoeists for paddling over riffles during he closed season, which is where we are at the moment. There are many anglers out there who profoundly believe that they have the undisputed right to use the river and canoeists don't. And the AT are encouraging them.

[andy_youngs]

Why not go the whole hog get Benyon and Farage on and Keith Arthur as the joker in the pack

 

If only ...

 

For the record, this is the extent of the exchange to date :

 

AY : "You challenged me to a public debate in front of several hundred anglers. You still interested?"

 

MS : "Absolutely. I sent you a personal message but got no reply. How about at the Angling Trust AGM in June? Cheers, Martin

 

AY : "Thanks for the message Martin. Unfortunately got banned from the FM forum, so was unable to pick your message up. My suggestion would be discussion in front of a public audience. Perhaps 35% Canoe England, 35% Angling Trust, 10% Recreational Sea Anglers, 20% public. How does that sound? Rather not have TV camera's present, I find it un-nerving. But if you insist we could talk about it. And no, I don't think the Angling Trust AGM is a very sensible venue for that type of discussion."

 

RESPONSE AWAITED

 

I'll keep you posted

[andy_youngs]

returning line caught bass.

What's that about? I always return undersize bass that have been caught on rod and line. What are they trying to do now?

[barry luxton]

Hi Budgie if my post came across as you describe I apologise, perhaps I have been on the defensive for too long and you are not alone in suggesting I’m ranting when that is simply not true. Trouble is I have yet to get properly to grips with the written word I tend to write as I would speak at a meeting, clearly and to the point. This often comes across as aggressive simply because the tone of the voice is not reflected in the written word.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hi Barry still having a pop at me I see, bless. Had a PM from an acquaintance of ours the other day Brian Carragher from up north, the title of his message was ‘Keep Going’ what a nice chap he is.

 

Ha ha ha again, first para i would say key board slippage, pounding away before brain engages or two left feet, perhaps you put yourself up in front leading the 17 rsa before you understood and learned that it takes a particular brain to use a keyboard for the good of angling, one day perhaps, ehh.

 

Our mate Brian, don't be shy put it up here for us to have a read. Have you won an 18th fan by any chance. It would be nice to see the rsa org take off, not under your constraints of challenge all before brains in gear. Coastguard fans , pba skippers, cefas, me, bass guys, poolbay small boat guys, mods on wsf, Budgie, Nick Staples etc etc.

[barry luxton]

If only ...

 

For the record, this is the extent of the exchange to date :

 

AY : "You challenged me to a public debate in front of several hundred anglers. You still interested?"

 

MS : "Absolutely. I sent you a personal message but got no reply. How about at the Angling Trust AGM in June? Cheers, Martin

 

AY : "Thanks for the message Martin. Unfortunately got banned from the FM forum, so was unable to pick your message up. My suggestion would be discussion in front of a public audience. Perhaps 35% Canoe England, 35% Angling Trust, 10% Recreational Sea Anglers, 20% public. How does that sound? Rather not have TV camera's present, I find it un-nerving. But if you insist we could talk about it. And no, I don't think the Angling Trust AGM is a very sensible venue for that type of discussion."

 

RESPONSE AWAITED

 

I'll keep you posted

 

Angling trust agm, thats a laugh, you'll run out of time, it will be within a secular bunch of guys, self clapping like seals praising themselves on how many more rules and regs they have developed for the good of cough, angling.

 

What about on this web site, mods are brilliant, so it would be kept in line, unlike the trusts own web site forum that imploaded from within due to the amount of desent their own members demonstrated. He can bring all of the trusts board with him for support if he recons he needs it, be a change for the board instead of travelling up to big ben. Make a point that there will be a few other questions asked to widen the discussion though, e g, voting rights. Should be a gas.

Edited December 31, 2011 by barry luxton

[gozzer]

What about on this web site, mods are brilliant, so it would be kept in line, unlike the trusts own web site forum that imploaded from within due to the amount of desent their own members demonstrated. He can bring all of the trusts board with him for support if he recons he needs it, be a change for the board instead of travelling up to big ben. Make a point that there will be a few other questions asked to widen the discussion though, e g, voting rights. Should be a gas.

 

What a good idea Barry, but you've got no chance. We've had a few ATr 'reps' on here, (official and unofficial), but they don't stay long. I get the feeling that they much prefer preaching to the converted.

 

John.

[barry luxton]

But, but, but, Salters breif:

 

National Campaigns Coordinator - Principal Roles:

- Supporting angling participation programmes

- Liaising with angling trades & other representative angling bodies

- Parliamentary and Ministerial liaison and political lobbying

- Membership recruitment & engagement

- Campaigns and communication

- Raising the media profile of angling

- Strategy advice and policy development

 

 

Can't do his job fully by remaining within, he will need to get out more, this site would be a golden opportunity.

[Bob Shotter]

Angling trust agm, thats a laugh, you'll run out of time, it will be within a secular bunch of guys, self clapping like seals praising themselves on how many more rules and regs they have developed for the good of cough, angling.

 

What a good idea Barry, but you've got no chance. We've had a few ATr 'reps' on here, (official and unofficial), but they don't stay long. I get the feeling that they much prefer preaching to the converted.

 

John.

 

Bit like ‘The Poole Bay Small Boat Club Forum’ then

[andy_youngs]

What about on this web site, mods are brilliant

I've got no reason to disagree with that, but I doubt if we'll get Salter on here. I reckon he got his fingers burnt on the FM forum, and once bittten twice shy ...

 

He can bring all of the trusts board with him for support if he recons he needs it

No he can't. There needs to be a debating panel comprising 4 representatives, Canoe England (??), Angling Trust (Salter), Recreational Sea Anglers (??) and Independent (me).

 

Plus a chairman of course. My dreamteam choice would be Jeremey Paxman. Sure, he's an angler (and therefore potentially biased), but I would trust him to discharge this function properly. I doubt if it's gonna happen ... he's a very busy man.

 

In any event, I still haven't heard back from Salter (no surprises there then).

 

Make a point that there will be a few other questions asked to widen the discussion though, e g, voting rights. Should be a gas.

 

I think the questions need to be disclosed in advance to each of the participants, and should be drawn from a fair cross section of the audience.

 

Happy New Year everyone.

Edited December 31, 2011 by andy_youngs

[Steve Walker]

Andy, I think you have to look at the public position of each party as a starting point for negotiations rather than a proposal for compromise.