LINES: Are we being conned? Part 1: DIAMETER

[jeepster]

nathan, you'd better keep on the right side of DG, otherwise he'll mark your card or make some other infantile threat

[poledark]

DG, I tend to go for Diameter first but only if it is strong enough for my purpose!!!!

This is why I started to use braided lines i.e. they are usually thinner than mono for a given BS,, but this only applies if I want a fairly strong line, say 6lb BS or more.

 

When it comes to fine line fishing like roaching then I go all out for low diameter as even the finest line is likely to be strong enough...almost any good mono will be fine enough at 1.5lb BS.

 

Having said that I realise that I am really only talking hooklink when roach fishing, the main line could quite feasibly be 30lb BS braid!!

 

I assume you are referring to the MAIN line in your posts?

 

Do we care??? do we have to care??? is there not a prety good range of lines that fulfill all that we require of a main line i.e. low diameter/high BS/low stretch if you want that/ durability ( you may remember me testing my 15 year old bulk Sylcast mono, purchased as 15lb BS and actually testing (dry) to 14lb+ ( I cant remember the exact figure)

 

If we are being conned it is most likely in the field of telling us to replace perfectly good line every year!!

 

Den

[Newt]

The Diamond Geezer:

Your 1.5p/yard sounds about right, but your mate's 1000yds for £3 sound more than a tad dodgy..... interesting to test it?  ...

The line I like when I have a need for mono is much closer to the 1000yds for £3 but it serves me well. Good line. $7 US is around £3.7 UK.

 

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fenboy:

Buy the cheapest line available and of course it won't be as good as stuff costing two, three or five times the price.

---

Fenboy,

 

I'm afraid that's where you're wrong If you look at the lab test data (diam, BS, abrasion-resistance and stretch) and cost (p/metre) that I've been poring over, the most expensive line is far from being the best, and on the other hand, some of the cheaper lines e.g. Daiwa Sensor outperform most of the more expensive ones, and nor do the more expensive lines meet their box/label claims any more closely than the cheaper ones, less so in over 50% of the examples tested (see also the EFTTA Line Test Results in the other threads about this)

 

DG

 

[ 15. February 2004, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by poledark:

DG, I tend to go for Diameter first but only if it is strong enough for my purpose!!!!

This is why I started to use braided lines i.e. they are usually thinner than mono for a given BS,, but this only applies if I want a fairly strong line, say 6lb BS or more.

 

When it comes to fine line fishing like roaching then I go all out for low diameter as even the finest line is likely to be strong enough...almost any good mono will be fine enough at 1.5lb BS.

 

Having said that I realise that I am really only talking hooklink when roach fishing, the main line could quite feasibly be 30lb BS braid!!

 

I assume you are referring to the MAIN line in your posts?

 

Do we care??? do we have to care??? is there not a prety good range of lines that fulfill all that we require of a main line i.e. low diameter/high BS/low stretch if you want that/ durability ( you may remember me testing my 15 year old bulk Sylcast mono, purchased as 15lb BS and actually testing (dry) to 14lb+ ( I cant remember the exact figure)

 

If we are being conned it is most likely in the field of telling us to replace perfectly good line every year!!

 

Den

---

Thanks, Den ..wise words from you as always. Yup, I am talking about MAIN lines, not hook-lengths but obviously hook-length lines are more critical and many if not all main lines can be used as hook-lengths except perhaps for carping and other specimens where specialised hook-lengths are preferred.

 

I was interested in your feedback/commenbt about diameter and your reason(s) for moving to braid .. which I hope to discuss later .. after the BS, abrasion-resistance and Stretch of monos.

 

Your 15yr-old Sylcast has done you well, though it may well have tested higher when it was new, and may well test lower if you condition it first i.e. soak it in water for 2 hrs before testing (this is the ISO Test Method used by EFTTA and others)

 

I'll be interested in your comments about Breaking Strength of monos, claimed vs. actual, and whether you think you're/we're being ripped off when buying them

 

DG

[The Diamond Geezer]

Den ... PS:

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by poledark:

If we are being conned it is most likely in the field of telling us to replace perfectly good line every year!! Den

---

Well, Den, you test your line and knots with your pukka method before use.... how many anglers do that? As for lines maintaining their BS over time and during use, I'll try to dig-out some test results that I've got somewhere, where the same spool of line (nylon mon0) was tested before use, and then at various times during the two subsequent seasons of use ... from memory, it didn't perform anything like as well as your old Sylcast, though, as I said, maybe even the Sylcast would have tested higher when it was new

 

As well as the detrimental effects of (UV) light, moisture, air (oxygen) and temperature on nylon mono, there's still the fact that it can get damaged during use, so surely it's worth not losing that fish-of-a-lifetime by at least turning the line round on the spool once-a-season, and for such a critical item of tackle (and I know yours have never let you down), to replace it for a few pounds every season or two?

 

DG

 

[ 15. February 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newt:

The line I like when I have a need for mono is much closer to the 1000yds for £3 but it serves me well. Good line. $7 US is around £3.7 UK.

---

Newt, we're talking about Rip-Off UK here You guys in the States have it easy, price-wise. With the $US to £UK exchange-rate at the moment it's worth buying from the States, but you still have to add shipping, VAT & Duty .. if you get caught-out! So say £UK6 for $US7 ... that works-out at 0.6p/yard .. exactly what we pay over here for a top tried & tested mono such as Sensor There are monos around for up to 3p/yard and some of them are cr@p. Can't comment on the lines you mention because I don't have proper independent Test Results for them ... do you? :confused:

 

Interestingly, a group of lines in the tests to which I referred, which best meet/exceed their box/label claim for strength and best meet or are less than their claim for diameter are manufactured ...not in Japan .... not in Germany .... not in Italy ... but in the Good 'Ole US of A

 

DG

 

[ 15. February 2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[The Diamond Geezer]

fenboy:

C'mon you guys...

 

Line is incredibly important, much more so than rods and reels, for example,  

..............

 

DG

[Dick Dastardly]

IMO Your line is the most important part of your tackle.It has always amazed me how people will spend a fortune on bedchairs/rods etc etc but scrimp on line!!

 

Diameter of main lines-

 

Good idea to break it down like this DG as it is a vast subject.

 

One (maybe two) reasons for taking diameter in to acount when choosing a mainline.The lower the diameter the further you can cast.Abbrasion resistance is also affected by diameter really.I see no other reasons.

 

DG I have been meaning to ask for some, what is the reason behind your obsession with lines? have you had a bad experience with some?Or have you simply not found one you are happy with?

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BUDGIE:

DG I have been meaning to ask for some, what is the reason behind your obsession with lines? have you had a bad experience with some?Or have you simply not found one you are happy with?

---

Budgie,

 

Well to you & other serious AN readers/posters, I suppose it must seem like an obsession but for me it's really just a matter of not getting ripped-off by false claims made by fishing tackle marketing companies, and my trying to get at the facts through all the marketing hype and cobblers claims. So much cobblers is talked, written and claimed about lines, especially monos, by some anglers and some companies. I personally know of known-name-anglers who have actually recommended in the national angling Press, products marketed by their sponsors, which they have not actually ever tested .. this is a con!

 

I used to work in the Labs at ICI Fibres largest nylon filament extrusion plant in the UK and in Europe at that time, so I have a personal technical as well as angling interest .. my main concern is the welfare of fish in that I need to know that what I think I am buying is what I'm actually getting for my money, and is strong enough to do its job under each angling situation, method and venue.

 

I think that 'til now, and reinforced by EFTTA's latest shock-horror line-test results, many fishing tackle marketing companies have knowingly relied on the fact that the average punter doesn't have the time, money or knowledge on how to test the lines that they're buying .. and of course they shouldn't have to. Now Trading Standards are on the case

 

This on-going interest of mine inter alia in lines was reinforced when a while back, a good friend & colleaque of mine became the Technical Manager of a Textile Testing Lab with £100Ks of nice new pukka hi-tech Test Equipment and who is able to use it in his lunch-breaks etc., semi on the QT, to test his and my lines.

 

The first couple of spools that I sent him, a couple of years back, were a real shock or rather the results were .... and now we've had the recent EFTTA test results that have painted an even blacker picture with something like 84% of the lines tested failing to meet their claims i.e. having false or at the very least, un-independently-tested claims on their products.

 

You won't get-away with false claims in many other markets/products, so why should fishing tackle marketing companies be any different?

 

Why put claims of dry, unknotted line diameter, BS, stretch and abrasion-resistance on their spools when you have to get your line wet and usually knot it, when you go fishing? It's cobblers to say that there are no agreed test methods because there are internationally-agreed test-methods, ISO/EN methods .. those used by EFTTA to do their tests on UK lines.

 

Sure, there are some good companies out there, who do test their lines before they make claims, but, say what you like, many of the rest are conning us and the test data are there to prove it. :mad:

 

DG

 

[ 15. February 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]