Hunting dogs

[Chris Goddard]

Sadly Lyn the anti's have even gone to the extremes of "Liberating" some of these hounds and are now putting It about that they are "Happy and contented!!" For anyone who knows these hounds they would laugh in the face of anyone who had the gall to even suggest that. The hounds are pack animals!! plain and simple and as such will obey the pack leader. Anyone telling any other tale is deluding themselves!! Or to put It more simply "full of sh1t!!

Oh! and to answer the earlier question "What if my dog chases a fox (Or anything else)you would be in breach of the law as It Is proposed at present!!

 

Chris

[Alan Roe]

Ok Here once again I will offend everybody!!

 

Reality No1 the proposed foxhunting ban has got sod all to do with any cruelty issue from a political perspective that aspect is simply political gloss....a convenient peg on which to hang the coat of the true reality of class hatred nothing more nothing less....Quite honestly I personally have no issue either way on this one .

 

The truth is that true hunting breeds are kept by all sorts including the 'New Age 'brigade who will turn up for the anti's demo's when paid. The lurcher is one of the classic hunting dogs though largely unrecognised by the great British public most of whom wouldn't know one if they fell over it!

 

Hunting with dogs for many means the working lurcher and a lamp....there is no way either in this world or the next you will stop this activity........

 

Especially when you realise that this is the form of hunting with dogs that is now practised by the great unwashed who have no fear of the law...As with firearms, the law only restrains those who are willing to be restrained by it.....

 

Hence the rise in the use of firearms by criminals

The parallels are there for all to see....

[Newt]

I am a little curious about one idea that has been expressed on here though. That being that a hunting dog cannot make a good pet.

 

Where in the world did that idea come from?

[chesters1]

its not hunting dogs really newt its hunt dogs i.e dogs from a hunting pack , all dogs can be trained to live with humans otherwise pets wouldnt exist , unfortunatly in this day and age people want instant pets ex hunt dogs would be completly "unhousetrained"also their temperment has already formed so harder to train to house living ,whilst most dogs eventually can be trained to live with humans (and their belongings) not many people would put the time and effort into training a semi wild animal or trust them with their children.

the animals could maybe be retrained to become police dogs (sniffer) or used as i said before as drag hunters.

[Alan Taylor]

Newt:

 

Where in the world did that idea come from?

I think Chesters has the jist of it, the hunting hounds that I was talking about are trained from pups, work in packs and from what I have seen are happy with there lot. My point was that I could not see a dog being taken from the working enviroment it has been brought up in and put in a house hold enviroment. I could well be wrong but that is just what I think.

 

Alan(nl)

[Newt]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Taylor:

[QB... My point was that I could not see a dog being taken from the

working enviroment

it has been brought up in and put in a house hold enviroment. I could well be wrong but that is just what I think.[/QB]

---

You are not wrong. Just not right either.

 

The key is the dogs are raised in a "pack" environment and are comfortable with it. Natural for dogs since they are, as pointed out earlier, pack animals by nature.

 

However, they seem to simply view the human family in dog pack terms and quickly become accustomed to it. They will easily pick out who is the alpha (dominant) male and alpha female. Very shortly, they will also establish their place within the family/pack structure and behave accordingly.

 

The difficulty can arise from human failure to understand their family structure from the dogs point of view. To it, stronger members are to be obeyed but weaker members are expected to know their place as well and be subservient. If not, they will be taught by methods that may not suit a human family. A snarl, maybe a nip.

 

This can be a problem if there are young children around. Babies of either species are tolerated since they aren't old enough to have learned the rules. Teens are enough larger to normally be higher up in the hierarchy. It is the "tween" kids that the dog may feel it has to teach their place.

 

I can speak to this personally BTW. I was raised in a small town and most of us hunted. Families would raise certain types of hunting dogs and then we would hunt with which ever group was appropriate.

 

My father raised and kept pointing dogs for upland game birds. German shorthair mostly. From the time I was very young, I would have one as my pet. It spent more time out of the kennel and with me but seemed to think we were all part of the same extended pack. A cousin who lived close did the same with beagle hounds for hunting rabbits. And another had Catahula hounds (AKA Louisianna Leopard Spotted Cow Hog Dogs and they hunt wild pigs by preference).

 

The non-pack raised dogs are slightly more difficult as they aren't usually nearly as well socialized as pack raised ones but even they can adapt to "people packs". There is an active program in the US to place Grayhounds with people after their racing career is over rather than just putting them down. Almost all of them from what I understand are placed with people who have no young children at home though.

 

There will be exceptions of course. Dogs who just can't adapt. Dogs who are just too mean to make it worth the effort. But in general, it should work nicely. Easier if a professional trainer for a specific breed helps out though.

 

[ 12 March 2002, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]

[phonebush]

Newt,

There is no shortage of dogs. Any breed - all breeds.

I tend to agree with Chesters1 (Ohh no!!). Like trying to change the spots on a zebra. Consider possible consequences of attack dogs, police dogs, fighting dogs or really, any dog trained in an anti-social, unacceptable household behavior. Automatically, the cause/affect will be blamed on previous training. Maybe rightly or maybe wrongly, doesn't matter. All dogs get a bad rap for the inappropriate acts of one.

Why spend the cost of a new well bred puppy trying to rehabilitate the older previously trained dog that ultimately will or may not be successful?

Anthropomorphic justifications not acceptable.

Phone

PS I always had a setter that filled both rolls but was never trained in anti-social behavior.

 

[ 12 March 2002, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: phonebush ]

[Alan Taylor]

Newt:

Originally posted by Alan Taylor:

[QB... My point was that I could not see a dog being taken from the working enviroment it has been brought up in .

On this one Newt I think we have to be happy to differ.

 

I agree with a lot of what you have said and the circumstances with regards to different types of hunting dogs. BUT, have you ever seen a pack of English hounds before, during and after the hunt? It is a different world realy.

 

Before anyone starts on me, I put English as I have not been in a position to have seen Welsh etc packs.

 

As an after thought, I did see a wild life programe about foxes and it seems there more living in the city and on dumps than in the country side.

 

Sorry for the dogs but glad to see an end to the so called sport.

 

Woof woof

 

Alan(nl)

[Newt]

Yup. I would never argue with a big city fella about these things.

[poledark]

Actually, (yeah, one of those Actually's) the point I was trying to make was not about hunting pack hounds, but all the other dogs that are officially classed as hounds.

 

I listened in amazement to an expert describing how the "strength of jaw" "strong hind quarters" "head carried high for better spotting of prey" and all the other traits that are essential to maintain the hunting qualities were carefully preserved in the breeding.

 

A similar story with the terrier class, "strong jaws" "untiring" etc.

 

My point was how can anyone continue to justify the BREEDING of these sort of dogs after Hunting with dogs is banned?

 

Den