If you think the Conservatives are bad, Libertarians are just plain disgusting

[corydoras]

L like putting crap in my recycling bin ,i have heard if its found the entire batch goes to land fill.

Whats recycling for ? Certainly not for saving the planet

No it's for saving energy.

[corydoras]

To be honest, I wouldn't particularly want to follow the model of any of the Scandinavian countries. I'm not sure that quitting the EU necessitates adopting a Nordic model of Social Democracy, though.

But you would like to quit the EU?

[chesters1]

No it's for saving energy.

,it may save something but it uses far more resources than the it takes to make it new ,

Take the new bulbs ,once apon a time you bought a bulb it got hot so it wasnt that efficient but it was just made of 4 components plus some inert gas ,now we save electric (they still get hot) but now recycling these beasts costs a fortune in energy probably far more than bulbs are chucking them in landfill ever did ,hows that sense?

The landfill is 3 miles away taking ali cans to wales in lorries eating much diesel uses much more resourses ,how that energy saving? Hopefully the lorries are not returning empty!

Take plastic a landfill full of plastic issues only a tiny amount of greenhouse gas ,recycling it makes huge quantities ,hows that for sense

Lets call landfill sites repositaries of good stuff for our kids kids kids ,you can make oil when the real stuffs gone ,you have huge quantities of good stuff just waiting for the means to use it ,why waste millions doing it when we really dont have to and by the time we need those resourses recycling them will cost little and produce few side effects compared to today

Edited April 5, 2013 by chesters1

[corydoras]

,it may save something but it uses far more resources than the it takes to make it new ,

Take the new bulbs ,once apon a time you bought a bulb it got hot so it wasnt that efficient but it was just made of 4 components plus some inert gas ,now we save electric (they still get hot) but now recycling these beasts costs a fortune in energy probably far more than bulbs are chucking them in landfill ever did ,hows that sense?

The landfill is 3 miles away taking ali cans to wales in lorries eating much diesel uses much more resourses ,how that energy saving? Hopefully the lorries are not returning empty!

Take plastic a landfill full of plastic issues only a tiny amount of greenhouse gas ,recycling it makes huge quantities ,hows that for sense

Lets call landfill sites repositaries of good stuff for our kids kids kids ,you can make oil when the real stuffs gone ,you have huge quantities of good stuff just waiting for the means to use it ,why waste millions doing it when we really dont have to and by the time we need those resourses recycling them will cost little and produce few side effects compared to today

Unfortunately chester this is a post full of fallacies and inaccuracies. I was brought up on the waste not want not" school of thought. Recycling is just a logical extension, and anyway when did you become concerned about greenhouse gases? I thought that you thought that Climate Change was just a conspiracy to keep researchers in a job and increase taxes. Also this way you have of debating by putting more than a dozen different points in one post, each of which would take me a page or two to answer fully is very dishonest. It's the way that some creationist Christians debate too. Sometimes it is called "The Gish Gallop"

Edited April 5, 2013 by corydoras

[chesters1]

okay lets strt at the beginning .yes old fashioned bullbs use more energy but they contain little materials ,tungsten ,glass ,some solder and possibly tin coated copper but more probably tin coated steel and some innert gas .with me ? good

can i chuck it in landfill yes completely safe .

new bulbs where do i start at least 20 materials including mercury (if you actually drop one at work the clearup procedure is ludicrous) far to many componants to list but all of them extremely difficult to seperate safely and none without vast ampounts of energy ,man power and their energy getting to the plant ,it is not automated its impossible for machinery to disamantle the electronic components within ,then theres the glass and the glasses coating and the speck of mercury. now how much electric do you think it takes to break down a bulb thats forbidden to go in land fill?

you have to seperate the bulbs hopeing not one has been broken into a lorry (actually hundreds of lorries going all over the country ),then drive that lorry to wherever its deemed safe to recycle them ,then the workers need to get to this hallowed site (i presume its just down the road and they walk....NOT) then the plant uses vast amounts of energy ,then after ALL the components are seperated they go to another plant ,one to recycle the capacitors, resistors ,diodes (OH wait you could just dump them in landfill thats to expensive to do) then the glass gets carted off ETC ETC ETC i can bet the energy used to recycle just one bulb far excedes what it saves ....OH the original bulb its 3 miles away tucked safely underground

Do i go on?

the gish gallop is just a ruse (put down) so you dont have to explain exactly why you dont agree incase its flawed

do i go onto the thousands of lorries taking ali cans to be recycled when johny foreigner is happy to supply huge ingots of fresh ali for a fraction of the cost? in money and energy compared

even greenpeace said somewhere plastic isnt worth recycling for the sake of it

 

and as for climate change at no time i have ever questioned it i questioned its man made ,its cyclic it always has been it always will be

i will grudgingly admit flouro bulbs may save me energy but once they are disposed of in no way is it energy saving

Edited April 5, 2013 by chesters1

[Steve Walker]

But you would like to quit the EU?

I don't want to go where the EU is going, or really to be where it is, but the question of whether it can be reformed is uncertain. I don't know how I would vote if we had an in/out referendum tomorrow, but I wouldn't rule out either option.

 

Ultimately, I don't think I want to live in the same kind of country that the majority of European citizens seem likely to choose, so the inexorable ratcheting towards a European superstate does not appeal to me.