Boat Fishing Monthly

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Some "flies" are fished on a controller or leadhead.

 

So what is the difference of fishing for small brown trout and releasing them to fishing for small bass and releasing them?

[Bob Jerunkel]

Some "flies" are fished on a controller or leadhead.

 

So what is the difference of fishing for small brown trout and releasing them to fishing for small bass and releasing them?

 

I would say its to do with whats sporting and what isn't Ken.

A fly on fly tackle is a sporting way to catch small bass.

Even then there are only so many you catch before leaving them alone.

In the article they are using uptide rods and the weight needed to carry the feathers to the bottom.

If they were only using one feather you have to ask what sport that has to offer.

One small or undersize bass on uptide gear.

If they were using more than one feather then that is more like commercial fishing than angling.

If the object of the exercise was to catch as many fish as possible by any method then sport didn't come into it.

Angling is a sport.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Let's look at it from another angle.

 

I do a lot of surf fishing with tackle that is designed to catch sizable fish, say a 10lb bass would be good sport.

 

Most days when I fish during the spring, summer and autumn months I know before I make a cast that the vast majority of the fish will be under size and no match for the tackle I am using.

 

But my aim as always is to catch that 10lb plus fish from the beach and they do turn up from time to time with a reasonable number of fish from 2lb up.

 

Does that make me unsporting?

[Guest CJS2]

Ken, you see the point mate, thank goodnes there is some sanity out there.

 

The best fish on the boat on the day was 50cm, some at 45 and 42. The problem I see, having had a few hours to digest the post. Three lures to a string were used, feathers, hockeyes, tin foil, call em what you will, they are lures. Most, if not all monthly anglers on a charter will be using uptiders as their lighter gear, and 20lb line. An awfull lot of regular anglers use this set up as well. Its the anoracks, and I put myself in this class, that drop to 12 and 6lb gear with 8 or 10lb line, even this is not light enough to be called "sporting" when hooking a 4lb or 5lb bass, so are we kidding our selfs? True sporting in the small bass stakes would be the lightest of spinning rods, 6lb line and a 3 or 4lb trace. The same applies to flies, bass flies are feathered lures, your anorack trout angler hates them, 'not sporting he cries'. and yet he happily fishes with an all wet 3 fly rig, a point fly, often a weighted nymph (can be worked as a lure) and two dropers, we all have our blinkers?

 

Sorry, but the real problem is 10 anglers, taking (keeping) 30 bass in one day, you should have a squint at what they used to do back in the good old days. The 70's and 80's, boat loads of cod and bass, see page 3 in Bob Cox's book 'Uptide and Boatcasting' a picture of part of a 99 fish charter boat catch, as well as a quote from the same page . . . "in June that year 180 bass in two hours and 1500 by the end of June". No criticisiumn, thats how it was, but get thing in perspective gents, 30 leagal fish, many well over, the best 50cm. Lots of small ones taken and returned, the fishing with lures for bass only amounted to about 2 hours, the rest of the time it was bait fishing.

 

Think about this one, I fish the Stour regularly for bass in the summer. So did 6 other boats on the particular day I have in mind. Two anglers on board each boat, in my case 3, the day that I am thinking of was mid July 2005, grabed a short 4 hour session in the afternoon. On my boat alone, we hooked at least 30 bass, stopped counting, probably nearer 40+, method drifting, working a rag worm, yes on KT we do work the worm. We kept a braice each = 6 fish, around 45cm + or - a centimeter, multiply that by the other 6 boats x 2 anglers per boat fishing that day, believe me most boats in the Stour dont limit themselves to 2 bass or 42cm, 40 fish plus taken. Fish caught, your looking at a projected potential hook up of 300-400 bass in one day. The figures for the other boats are hypothetical as I did not speak to them, but why should they not have done as well if not better than KT?

 

Witch hunts neaver work, I'll say it again, change the rules. I'll also say, that from what I have seen in my marina, the Dawnbreaker trip was well organised and played strictly by the rules, the anglers had a great day out, with some veriety if you read the artical properly.

CJS2

[sam-cox]

Ken, you see the point mate, thank goodnes there is some sanity out there.

 

The best fish on the boat on the day was 50cm, some at 45 and 42. The problem I see, having had a few hours to digest the post. Three lures to a string were used, feathers, hockeyes, tin foil, call em what you will, they are lures. Most, if not all monthly anglers on a charter will be using uptiders as their lighter gear, and 20lb line. An awfull lot of regular anglers use this set up as well. Its the anoracks, and I put myself in this class, that drop to 12 and 6lb gear with 8 or 10lb line, even this is not light enough to be called "sporting" when hooking a 4lb or 5lb bass, so are we kidding our selfs? True sporting in the small bass stakes would be the lightest of spinning rods, 6lb line and a 3 or 4lb trace. The same applies to flies, bass flies are feathered lures, your anorack trout angler hates them, 'not sporting he cries'. and yet he happily fishes with an all wet 3 fly rig, a point fly, often a weighted nymph (can be worked as a lure) and two dropers, we all have our blinkers?

 

Sorry, but the real problem is 10 anglers, taking (keeping) 30 bass in one day, you should have a squint at what they used to do back in the good old days. The 70's and 80's, boat loads of cod and bass, see page 3 in Bob Cox's book 'Uptide and Boatcasting' a picture of part of a 99 fish charter boat catch, as well as a quote from the same page . . . "in June that year 180 bass in two hours and 1500 by the end of June". No criticisiumn, thats how it was, but get thing in perspective gents, 30 leagal fish, many well over, the best 50cm. Lots of small ones taken and returned, the fishing with lures for bass only amounted to about 2 hours, the rest of the time it was bait fishing.

 

Think about this one, I fish the Stour regularly for bass in the summer. So did 6 other boats on the particular day I have in mind. Two anglers on board each boat, in my case 3, the day that I am thinking of was mid July 2005, grabed a short 4 hour session in the afternoon. On my boat alone, we hooked at least 30 bass, stopped counting, probably nearer 40+, method drifting, working a rag worm, yes on KT we do work the worm. We kept a braice each = 6 fish, around 45cm + or - a centimeter, multiply that by the other 6 boats x 2 anglers per boat fishing that day, believe me most boats in the Stour dont limit themselves to 2 bass or 42cm, 40 fish plus taken. Fish caught, your looking at a projected potential hook up of 300-400 bass in one day. The figures for the other boats are hypothetical as I did not speak to them, but why should they not have done as well if not better than KT?

 

Witch hunts neaver work, I'll say it again, change the rules. I'll also say, that from what I have seen in my marina, the Dawnbreaker trip was well organised and played strictly by the rules, the anglers had a great day out, with some veriety if you read the artical properly.

CJS2

 

If you read Uptide and Boat Casting properly the picture you are refureing to has a caption under it, it reads something like this is part of a 99 fish catch, Bob Cox was one of the very first skippers to promote catch and release. Over half the bass on his boat went back. The bigest bass to be returned from Bobs boat was aover 16lb and went back with a tag in it. Many doubles went the same way in the 80s.

TO DELIBERATLY TARGET VERY SMALL BASS WITH STRINGS OF FEATHERS TO MY MIND IS WRONG AND CAN NOT BE JUSTIFYED.

[Simon Everett]

Gents,

I have only just come in on this one. I must say that when i was looking through BFM I was a bit shocked by the caption - another keeper...It may have been over the MLS of 36cms, but that does NOT make it a keeper! I was also very disappointed that there are still "anglers" who are happy to catch fish of this calibre - with any tackle! I thought we got rid of them in the 1970s.

 

A keeper is a fish between 3lbs and 5lbs - any other bass should be returned, no question. We need to look at the reasons - the 36cms MLS was not introduced as a conservation measure - it was the size THE COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN DEMANDED BECAUSE THAT IS THE SIZE THE FRENCH HOUSEWIFE WANTED.

 

A 36cm bass has yet to spawn.

A 65cm bass and above is a female (roughly 6lbs) and the largerfish carry bigger, and more of them, and more viable ova (eggs) - if you kill a 10lb bass it is the same as killing 40 2lb bass - in terms of reproductive potential. One 10lb hen fish produces the viable ova of 40 first spawning females. They need to be returned - angled for yes, but returned, not killed.

 

Anglers should be able to adopt a voluntary size limit and bag limit WITHOUT HAVING TO BE TOLD. There is a morality question here, not a legal one. If you want good fishing in the future you have to do something NOW, not wait to be told like some schoolboy.

 

I thought anglers were begining to get the idea, but it seems there is a long way to go when a charter skipper actually allows this kind of fishing to take place on his boat.

 

My father was a charter skipper and he would have been horrified by this tale. I remember him moving off when we hit a shoal of red bream on the Hand Deeps. Yes, he allowed the party to catch a few - then he said that was enough, let us go and find something else - lets try for a big ling.....he would not allow a constant stream of fish over the side for the sake of it - and that was in the 70s. He would suggest something better, a bigger challenge, not make do with the easy option.

 

What happened to him someone is going to say - he died, and so the boat was sold. I had gone to sea by then.

 

Lets wake up people. Charter bookings want to catch fish - but I doubt anyone would be happy to pay their £30 and go to catch small fish like that - if they do, then they are very poor anglers, very poor sportsmen and very small minded. It is up to the charter skippers to educate these people to better things and suggest they try for something bigger - elsewhere.

[sam-cox]

Gents,

I have only just come in on this one. I must say that when i was looking through BFM I was a bit shocked by the caption - another keeper...It may have been over the MLS of 36cms, but that does NOT make it a keeper! I was also very disappointed that there are still "anglers" who are happy to catch fish of this calibre - with any tackle! I thought we got rid of them in the 1970s.

 

A keeper is a fish between 3lbs and 5lbs - any other bass should be returned, no question. We need to look at the reasons - the 36cms MLS was not introduced as a conservation measure - it was the size THE COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN DEMANDED BECAUSE THAT IS THE SIZE THE FRENCH HOUSEWIFE WANTED.

 

A 36cm bass has yet to spawn.

A 65cm bass and above is a female (roughly 6lbs) and the largerfish carry bigger, and more of them, and more viable ova (eggs) - if you kill a 10lb bass it is the same as killing 40 2lb bass - in terms of reproductive potential. One 10lb hen fish produces the viable ova of 40 first spawning females. They need to be returned - angled for yes, but returned, not killed.

 

Anglers should be able to adopt a voluntary size limit and bag limit WITHOUT HAVING TO BE TOLD. There is a morality question here, not a legal one. If you want good fishing in the future you have to do something NOW, not wait to be told like some schoolboy.

 

I thought anglers were begining to get the idea, but it seems there is a long way to go when a charter skipper actually allows this kind of fishing to take place on his boat.

 

My father was a charter skipper and he would have been horrified by this tale. I remember him moving off when we hit a shoal of red bream on the Hand Deeps. Yes, he allowed the party to catch a few - then he said that was enough, let us go and find something else - lets try for a big ling.....he would not allow a constant stream of fish over the side for the sake of it - and that was in the 70s. He would suggest something better, a bigger challenge, not make do with the easy option.

 

What happened to him someone is going to say - he died, and so the boat was sold. I had gone to sea by then.

 

Lets wake up people. Charter bookings want to catch fish - but I doubt anyone would be happy to pay their £30 and go to catch small fish like that - if they do, then they are very poor anglers, very poor sportsmen and very small minded. It is up to the charter skippers to educate these people to better things and suggest they try for something bigger - elsewhere.

Some one at last talking sence.

[Simon Everett]

Oh, and what is more, to atually publicise it in a national journal is the worst part of it. I know pages have to be filled and editorial publicity is of great value to the charter skipper concerned - but the only Boat Angling magazine should be encouraging people to aim higher, not condoning the targeting of immature fish for sport. If you look back through the old angling magazines you see stories that make you want to go out and catch big fish - not chase easy, little fish because there are plenty of them.

[sam-cox]

I for one will be writting to Jim WHIPPY IN DESCUST OF SUCH A BAD ARTICAL.

[Guest CJS2]

part of a 99 fish catch,

 

Yes Sam, thats what I put, read it again ' . . . part of . . .' But the bass were certainly hamered? Now we aint got non:(

 

Sadly there is a problem in that verious post have been taken in isolation. You still cant get away from the fact that working lures only acounted for a small part of the trips duration, stated in the artical. Also in the artical, a new mark was moved to, the anchor was set and bait fishing was the order of the day other specieas were caught, but bass were the dominent species at that time of the year, they were every where.

 

Be fair and give the full facts!!!!

 

However you slice it, your average angler knows 36 cm is the limit, untill it changes, you wont change their thinking. Most of the fish were returned alive, 2 or 3 per angler were kept. You seem to have the idea that all were kept almost regardles of size, which is not true. The main picture was a 50cm fish, and many were around the 42cm mark.

 

Get off the band waggon, do the finger pointing and shouting at the powers that make the rules, this achives nothing. Personal opinions are a right, but this is small minded selective bigitary, using only selected facts, with a view that is best described as blinkered, I wont get more descriptive ! ! !

 

That the last of my post, put out the flags!!!