Obese People Denied Healthcare

[five bellies]

Don't know if you've seen this.....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/4462310.stm

 

I wonder if they'll stop giving patches to smokers next, or cease treating any other junkies?

 

Perhaps obese people can have a reduction in tax?

 

OH DEAR,

 

Looks like im in for a bit of a lumpy ride

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Suggestions have been made by some health authorities about selecting patients for some types of surgery based on their lifestyle. i.e. chest / heart surgery not being appropriate for heavy smokers. Obesity not being approriate for hip operations etc. or come to that liver transplants in alcoholics. It was suggested that some patients would be de-prioritised unless they made an attempt to help themselves

 

The bottom line is not whether a person will survive or make good use of treatment, this situation has been created by a shortage of funds the trust involved actualy stated this.

 

The selection process was a way to correct that problem.

 

I think the point most people I speak to make is that goverments in general waste public funds on a daily basis.

 

Look at this automated benefit claims process that has screwed up, that will cost millions to put right, they could have sat a few more bums on seats a lot cheaper.

 

Now you will say it is only a little bit of money, but look how many hips it could replace.

 

The fact is whether you , I or any esle likes it there are far to many people for whatever reason coming into this little island and sapping up its' resources.

 

People who have worked all their lives paying taxes and NI are now being told you can't have a new hip because you are over weight.

 

Well I would say their human rights are being severly violated.

 

Doctors do not get it right all the time and some of the mistakes are very basic.

 

Example: Sid developed a small ulcer on his right heel which would not heal up. First shot in the dark was to replace his vein between his knee and ankle.

 

Didn't work three months later he was back in when I took him down on an emergency entrance. Second shot was to replace his vein between his upper leg and where they finished the first time.

 

Didn't work so they cut of his leg just above the ankle.

 

Didn't work so they cut it of just below the knee.

 

Didn't work, then after Sid had been repeatedly complaining for over a year about stomach pains they decided to run him through one of these scanners that take dozens of shots as the patient goes through.

 

What did they find, a benign polyp this was removed but to late to stop them cutting of his leg above the knee.

 

I dodn't mind admitting I stood alongside his bed and cried my eyes out because of all the unnessary suffering he had been through. He pulled through against all the odds and went on to write his book and do that skydive in June age 79.

 

At a rough guess applying this new turn of events they would have written him off as a total waste of money.

Edited November 25, 2005 by Ken Davison South Wales

[Sportsman]

Sorry Ken, it's not as simple as just a shortage of funds, although I'm sure that comes into it. There is a shortage of resources in general including Drs Nurses X ray and lab techs as well as buildings beds operating theatres and car parks!

Throwing a few million at the problem won't solve it and sending a few illegal immigrants home won't solve it either, it may be a better idea to give them as job in the NHS and fill some of the vacancies.

It is about making the best and most effective use of the resources available, one of which is finance.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Hi Sportsman,

 

I was hoping you would see the deeper picture relating to the Sid saga.

 

His journey from ulcer to amputee was a waste of all the things you have stated and created on going problems.

 

As someone who knows very little about the inner workings of hospitals and the NHS in general, but knows a lot about quality assurance there is one comment I can make.

 

There is either a total lack of procedures within the NHS or a total lack of knowledge.

 

Both of these lead to a waste of resources already available to the NHS.

 

I had to chuckle about the inclusion of car parks as now days these are form of revenue and taxation of the public using them.

 

Even when I took Sid into hospital as a patient I had to pay a £1 parking fee even though I had saved the NHS the cost of an ambulance.

[chevin]

That is my problem with people dragging race into it. It has nothing whatever to do with it.

 

 

I think that you have several problems. First of all you make insulting remaks about my physique and parentage and now you accuse me of being racist!

 

All I said in the first place is that illegal immigrants enjoy far too many benefits to which they are not entitled. Those benefits cost the tax payer and the NHS a great deal of money that could be spent elsewhere if it wasn't being spent on them.

 

Being an immigrant to Australia I do do have sympathy with bona fide immigrants, especially those who make every effort to integrate within their new country. However, to be accused of bringing race into the discussion because I was critical of crimminals who are invading your country and who are being cared for better than are a lot of people who have paid their way during their working life is ludicrous. I must suggest once again that you read my posts correctly and not read what you (not a generic you) want to see in them.

[Sportsman]

I thought we had got over this.

I made no comment about you, your parentage or your physique. The "you" in the post referred to "you" the patient, who is being refused treatment because "you" are obese.

I did not accuse you of being rascist, if I did maybe you cal explain where. I said, and I stand by, that I do not understand why it is, whenever we are debating anything contentious, within half a dozen posts, someone will say it's all the fault of the immigrants, and they don't always specify legal or illegal.

I read your post and I realize that you specified illegal immigrants so not using the word illegal in my response was laziness on my part.

Having said that I still don't agree with you. Immigrants of any type have nothing to do with this particular debate. If you want to talk about the effect illegal immigration is having on the resources of the NHS I will happily debate that one with you, lets start a new thread.

 

Ken, as far as wastage in the NHS goes, now your talking. Wastage due to mismanagement of available resources is almost certainly the biggest factor to take into consideration. Beside it the treatment of visitors to this country pales into insignificance. It should be remembered that the NHS is one of the largest employers in the world with an annual budget larger than a moderate sized country.

Your anecdote about Sid is truly dreadful but I don't think it relates to circumstances in the NHS in general, just poor medical practice i'm afraid. My father in law went to his GP a year ago complaining of feeling breathless and was told that he had asthma and emphysema, and was given drugs which had little effect. A few weeks ago he collapsed and was taken to casualty where he was found to be seriously anaemic, (short of blood cells). This was due to the bleeding bowel cancer he had had for over a year. The anaemia had been causing his breathlessness and now he has been treated properly he is fine. Not lack of organisation or funds, laziness and a mistaken diagnosis on the part of the GP I'm afraid.

[chevin]

If you want to talk about the effect illegal immigration is having on the resources of the NHS I will happily debate that one with you, lets start a new thread.

 

Thanks for the invitation which I will decline, it is quite obvious that it would be pointless and a waste of time. I will just accept your assurance that the billions that could be saved if illegal immigrants could be prevented from entering Britain would not be of help to the NHS.

[nursejudy]

I have only just read this thread,I was not going to post!!!!!!!!

 

 

All this talk of hospitals!!!!!!!no one seems interested in what is happening when patients leave hospital and get back in the real world,today as nurses we pride ourselves on giving holistic care,,however when patients are discharged from hospital and need our care..well it helps if they are referred to our care and not left to muddle along at home as often happens ,they quite often end up back in hospital.

 

If people do not wake up there will be no Primary Care left if the government has its way.

In the middle of the school holidays when most people were away,Sir Nigle Crisp ...head of the NHS sent his missive out ,that the Primary Care Trusts were to be cut down in size(there are 4 in Sheffield) 4 have to merge into 1 inorder to claw back money thats been overspent.... this is nationally by the way....

As of next year there should be new trusts for each area!!!!As of 2008 the primary Care Trusts would be purchasing the care not providing it!!!!!!

All District Nursing care for instance will be put out to tender.... to charities or the high st...Boots was mentioned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

District Nursing is only one part of primary Care...

No one will want to take on the patients where I work....inner city ,high deprivation rates,over 70 different languages spoken at our 2 surgeries....

 

We wait for the White Paper thats due soon.....to tell us whats happening......

We are fearful for our jobs ...but its the patients that will suffer.

Up to know there has not been too much about this in the press....but the s*** will hit the fan soon!!!!!!!!!!

 

The NHS is millions in the red,and the government has made it quite clear its not going to let the trusts off!!!!!!

If we have the bad winter as predicted....god know what will happen especially out in the community,we are allready overstretched!!!no money to replace staff on maternity leave or long term sick,,job recruitment frozen..... hospitals do not understand our problems!!!!!! they just chuck everyone out as quickly as possible.

We are drowning in paper work and government initiatives.All we want to do is care for the patient,I started my nurse training in 1968 all long time ago... the NHS has never been in such a state!I can retire in five years,unless I get made redundant ...which is possible.

 

bet you wish I had not posted now.

 

Judith

 

Please note I have not used any smilies......

[Sportsman]

Thanks for the invitation which I will decline, it is quite obvious that it would be pointless and a waste of time. I will just accept your assurance that the billions that could be saved if illegal immigrants could be prevented from entering Britain would not be of help to the NHS.

 

Why is it obviously a waste of time? I would rather enjoy it

 

As a matter of interest, where do you get your figures from? I wasn't aware that we were spending billions on the health care of illegal immigrants

Edited November 27, 2005 by Sportsman

[*Ant*]

I wasn't aware that we were spending billions on the health care of illegal immigrants

 

I don't believe anyone claimed as such, although I would be surprised if it wasn't the case.

 

Sportsman - The thing that annoys folk is the way our government, both local and national, and all it's various agencies seem intent on spending the tax payers money trying to right the worlds wrongs and help the worlds needy yet seemingly not giving a damn about it's own citizens.

In case you havn't noticed the vast majority don't actually live in utopia here in the UK. Health care, poverty, housing, pensions, all here at home but not much in the way of solutions is there? For example, the government expects us to work longer and save more for our old age, then tax us to the hilt (both at national and local government again) and so make saving for our futures next to impossible.