For people who care about conservation only

[steve good]

Hello Tom

 

I'll try.

 

I have altered it a bit since also the fishing news edited some of it, not always a good thing, I had forgot they had a copy, I emailed it to several places quite a while ago.

 

Click here I think

Bass_management_plan.doc

 

hi wuzel

 

The BMP is for english vessels, scotland,wales and northern ireland may and can retain the 36 cm bass size, and tranship these bass to any market they want in england.

[steve good]

I know that male bass are sexually matuire at 36cm Steve. But what good is a sexually mature male bass on it's own? Last I heard both male and female bass were needed to make baby bass.

 

Do you not know that bass are a shoal fish and that a shoal consists of many differant sizes even those sizes ABOVE 45 cm, a male 36cm bass can fertilse the eggs of any size bass

[Steve Coppolo]

Do you not know that bass are a shoal fish and that a shoal consists of many differant sizes even those sizes ABOVE 45 cm, a male 36cm bass can fertilse the eggs of any size bass

 

Yes, I'm well aware of bass being shoal fish. A male bass of 36cm may well be able to fertilize the eggs of a 45cm+ female bass. But do you not know that you still need the 45cm female bass to produce those eggs in the first place? If you didn't have the sexually mature female bass, ie, 45cm+, the sexually mature males would just be squirting milt all over the sea bed!

 

I can't see what your point is Steve. Maybe we've got our wires crossed or something, but to me if a female doesn't mature until 45cm, it doesn't matter that male bass mature at 36cm. If you want bass to spawn before being caught you have to let the females mature. That means a MLS of 45cm unless there is a way of catching male only fish at 36cm and females at 45cm that I don't know about?

[Grant]

may have this wrong, but I thought the proposals were in relation to a MLS for UK (English?) waters, and did not relate to where the boat was from?

 

If this is correct, then this would apply to all boats.

[Leon Roskilly]

Do you not know that bass are a shoal fish and that a shoal consists of many differant sizes even those sizes ABOVE 45 cm, a male 36cm bass can fertilse the eggs of any size bass

 

 

All that I've read says that bass shoal for life, with all fish in the shoal from the same cohort.

 

As individuals in the shoal grow larger, more and more members of the shoal perish over time, so that the bigger the fish the smaller the shoal.

 

In fact it is often said that large bass become solitary.

 

They aren't solitary by nature it's just that most of their shoal mates have gone to that happy sea in the sky.

 

(There was a time when you hooked into a big specimen, the advice was to get your lure or bait back to that spot quickly as there was a good chance of another big fish)

 

Although the bass shoal is thinned over the years by natural predation etc., it's the fact that the same shoal keeps encountering netting that now quickly reduces the number of bigger fish.

 

And anglers too!

 

Once they become adult, bass tend to stay in the same area.

 

When such fish are found and targeted, just the odd big fish being taken by anglers every week or so, that shoal also disappears within a few seasons.

 

How often have you heard "We used to be some big bass around x, but they don't get them there now"

 

(One reason why angling bag limits for bass will be considered in the next phase of the DEFRA consultation).

 

 

But of course Steve is fundamentally right, come the winter and the seperate shoals head towards the spawning areas, and mix together in large congregations, fish of different sizes mixing milt and eggs.

 

If there are too many mature males, in comparison with spawning female numbers, then a lot of milt doesn't get to fertilise any eggs.

 

 

From a 'conservation' point of view (defining 'conservation' as the ability of the stock to produce future generations of immature fish that suit the commercial market), it is argued that current fishery practices are sustainable (keeping fingers crossed that the current run of mild winters continues indefinitely).

 

However, there is a use of the resource that is worth much more, that needs a stock to be represented naturally throughout its entire age range, with a higher proportion of bigger fish than is the case now.

 

And that use has been demonstrated as having a very high social and economic value.

 

It's not about whether the commercial fishery needs these measures.

 

It's not all about conservation.

 

But it's about the government ensuring that the best possible overall value is attained from the way that the resource is to be managed.

 

Fortunately, as apparent to anyone with any vision at all, we are very much heading for a win win situation where the stock not only becomes more robust, able to weather future environmental challenges, the stock becomes more valuable from a commercial perspective, but where the end product is likely to delight anglers and lead to substantial development in the Recreational Sea Angling sector.

 

And I can see that is the very last thing that the catching sector wants to see.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Leon Roskilly]

may have this wrong, but I thought the proposals were in relation to a MLS for UK (English?) waters, and did not relate to where the boat was from?

 

If this is correct, then this would apply to all boats.

 

 

Grant,

 

Remember that this is a consultation taking place by DEFRA in England, and by The Welsh Assembly Government in Wales.

 

What is on the table are a number of suggestions, nothing at all is definite as yet, and the final outcome may be different to any of the suggestions within the consultation document.

 

And it may be that England and Wales decide that things will be done differently in either administration.

 

If you want to know exactly what is being proposed, it's best to carefully read both Consultation documents, rather than treating any opinions as to what they contain expressed on here as authoritive.

 

If you agree with the proposals, write and tell them. If you have further ideas, write and tell them. If you see any practical problems with what is being proposed, write and tell them.

[steve good]

Where did you get the figure of 1.8 million Bass anglers from?

 

I suspect if you divided it by ten you might be nearer the mark. Which would mean 540 tons with an RSA Bass spenditure of £10 million pounds, just in the South West. Compare this to the annual commercial landings of 8000 tons with an income of £3 million pounds then you can see why the Bass is suitable for an RSA product

 

hi ian

 

the uk export of fish was £880 million last year, a part of which was bass, this helps to balance the imports to this country

 

steve

[Leon Roskilly]

Full stats are given at

 

http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/publica...tat/uksfs04.pdf

 

Table 4.3 gives a breakdown of how that £880 million is made up, broken down by species etc.

 

Bass (unlike tuna!) don't get any mention.