Overfishing of Cod predates trawlers

[jim doyle]

the russian klondikers , I think Im right in say were bascially factories afloat. Boats were selling catches to them rather than landing them ashore, there are not nearly as many nowadays probably because of the decline in the mackeral fishery off the west coast. If Im wrong about the east coast sandeels I apologise, I m only going on what a couple of mates that ran prawn boats told me. As for enforcement, the fisherman claim they are the guardians of the sea and should be allowed to manage the fishery them selves , they have different criteria to the scientests or ourselves in that our livelyhood dosnt entail us having to catch/kill as many fish as possable to pay bank loans etc. Yes there needs to be an objective veiw of these things but unfortunately mis judgement of something like fish stocks cannot be rectified by the turn of a switch, and history shos its better to err on the side of caution than to wring our hands in despair afterwards.

[big_cod]

worzel were you not wreck netting out of whitby you did get some clonkers off olafs am i right

[wurzel]

Hello Big Cod

 

Yes we had some good catches, mainley on rough ground, shooting the nets for one tide only unlike the locals who left thier nets 24 hours,

While the nets were fishing we would fish a nearby wreck with the rods, a great way to earn a living.

[wurzel]

@winter@

I under stand what you are saying,

it shows how resilient the ground just off the town is, it took a fair hammering while we were there, we called it the motor way,these boats mainly fished for baulk landing round haddock and whiting,(ungutted) with a few codling,I whitnessed the amount of discards these boats were dumping over the side,when I mentioned it,I was soon told to f*~! off you cockney *!#t,

 

The ministry have been talking about ways to stop discards for the last 20 years,

I could have sorted it in a week.

 

As it happens I met Arnold Locker at a meeting a few weeks ago, One of the main players at Whitby,

he tells me he's had to diversify into potting and other fisheries like red mullet.

 

It's the same as any business, you do what you can to survive.

[Jaffa]

Thanks for the link Leon.

 

http://www.cefas.co.uk/publications/partne...project%2D1.pdf

 

Although inconclusive that report generally seems to indicate an extremely low bycatch rate. Using the sandeel and whitefish trawls also showed that large whitefish were present but the gear was being avoided by them somehow.

 

Have you ever seen those marine lab videos of fishing gear in action; fascinating how different species respond .You see the whitefish swimming ahead of the net mouth until they tire and fall back, and which ones fall back when depends on species and size. Assuming the Danes wish to avoid a high bycatch because it causes problems for them, it seems reasonable to assume their skippers are skilled in working their trawls in ways to avoid it. I wonder for instance if they would have caught those same sprat shoals the research trawler did or have the skill to avoid them ?

 

The numbers you quote also indicate a very low bycatch; compare that with any whitefish trawler, Mr Morleys comment about the numbers fluctuating widely is obvious for a species so low in the food chain that can recruit at age 1 yr.

 

Mr David Hill ! Not heard that name in a while. He used to write into the Fishing News letters page on what seemed a weekly basis. Thats going back to the 1980's ! Can't honestly remember what point he was making back then ; it was about industrial fishing but I can't remember if he was for or against it. I suspect he was anti because if i remember right he was in a war of words with a Danish skipper named Kirk, or Kent, something like that. So Mr Hill stayed in that industry all this time then?

 

Who nicked my memory ! Perhaps Wurzel will remember.

 

Wurzel, thanks for the papers; will sit down and read them once theres peace and quiet in the house! The first ones about gaming theory applied to fisheries management? Looks interesting though how much I will understand is another thing , I'll send them on to Leon - he's given me enough headaches lately so time to return the favour !

 

Jim, your mates might be right, its just not something I have heard of before. I did a couple of seasons at Ullapool when the whole Klondyking operation was at its height; remarkable bit of history and glad I got to see it before it ended. That was back in the early 80's though and I have not followed their activities much since. All I would say is that im glad those ships were anchored in Loch Broom buying pelagic fish from us rather than doing the damage in international waters they were designed for. Anything you try to imagine would not come close to just how crazy those fleets worked and how much damage they must have caused. That really was goverment intervention at its most insane.

 

One funny moment was when a tory MP, can't remember who, suddenly "discovered" that the soviets had thousands of people coming and going as they liked just up the coast from our Nuclear fleet! They'd been coming for years by then Im sure there are still stashs of illicit vodka around Loch Broom to this day

 

Chris.

[big_cod]

wurzel is tour name paul by any chance

[Jaffa]

quote:

---

The ministry have been talking about ways to stop discards for the last 20 years,

I could have sorted it in a week.

---

Wurzel, I remember Scots fishermen and the marine lab developing the square mesh panel and that must have been the late 80's . They wanted to use it in exchange for relaxation in haddock quota if i remember right. It got turned down flat as the whole obcession was with TAC's and quotas and technical measures were no where in goverment thinking.

 

All these decades, all this damage and still only limited signs of change.

 

What do you think about having huge permenantly closed areas,perhaps chosen with the fishermen, do you think that could help for the future?

 

I know the oil industry has created a lot but even bigger ones?

[Leon Roskilly]

Jaffa:

What do you think about having huge permenantly closed areas,perhaps chosen with the fishermen, do you think that could help for the future?

 

So where will the fishing effort that took place in those areas go to?

 

 

Will it mean less fish being killed, or a higher percentage of fish still being killed in the remaining areas?

 

If the contining escalation of fish killing technology keeps increasing, and yet the areas where it can be deployed reduces, what happens?

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 05. March 2005, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[big_cod]

leon when i look at this map the northeast which is heavily trawled is left out, very strange this is by no doubht a breeding area

[Jaffa]

Who knows Leon, Closed areas and "leave it to fishermen and economics" areas might be simplistic and wrong headed but how can it get any worse?

 

I've more faith in the fish adapting to utilise the no fish areas than I have in goverment managing demersal fisheries.

 

Perhaps im too cynical but IMO the technology will always increase and goverment will always be two steps behind (or two decades on my own experience).