Overfishing of Cod predates trawlers

[Guest jay_con]

Are you unable to grow veg up there max? Dont worry m8 ill have surplus to send you.

 

Im interested in this theory that the lack of sandeal is not down to overgishing? I admit I know nothing at all about sandeals apart from I seem to catch less when im makeraling than I did when I was a kid. But I feel Greenpeace and other such agencies have led me to beleive fishing on a massive scale has brought about the sandeal demise, with fertiliser companies and the food industry using to much fish oil in thier products. Is this not the case?

[Jaffa]

No. Fishing for sandeels has taken a lot of flak over the years, both from "environmentalists" and commercial fishers looking to shift blame.

 

The evidence is just not there but its an easy sell to the public; "industrial" boats "hoover up" fish to feed pigs or the new environmental hate of farmed fish. No mention is of course made of all the other uses to which fish meal and oil is put, or that many of the stocks breed at age 1 yr!- so environmental influences far outweigh fishing mortality!

 

To hell with facts when you need a good story

[Leon Roskilly]

Jaffa:

Are all commercials to be called "Netters", even when most are not, just because it hits an emotional spot with many anglers?

er, the term 'Netters' differentiates between those fishermen who use nets and those involved in (say) the potting and shellfish sectors, and the rod and line 'commercials', where most of the issues are different.

 

Why should there be a problem with using the term 'netter', it's a perfectly legitimate way of taking fin-fish surely?

 

I sense a little paranoia Jaffa, take it easy

 

Incidentally, why is the term 'commercial' used when talking about fishing?

 

We never hear the term 'Commercial Farmers' (as opposed to 'Hobby Farmers' such as Winter and I!)

 

(By the way it's perfectly feasible to grow good fruit and veg at more northerly latitudes, drop in on http://www.organicgarden.org.uk/forum/ there's a few there who can advise on coping with wind and frosts oop North )

 

And now you've got me thinking, why do fishermen always talk about 'livelihoods' when the word 'profits' is more appropriate in many cases.

 

After all, I'm sure that 'commercial' fishermen go to sea mainly with the idea of making a bob or two from exploiting a publicly owned resource, rather than going out unselfishly risking their lives just to provide us good shore-dwelling folk with our fish and chip supper.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[jim doyle]

jaffa is it not the case that norwegion boats pretty well "hoovered up" one of the biggest sandeel fisheries just of the tay? The russian factory boats were not serviced and taking fish from brit boats, the huge cod of the inner clyde basically fished to extinction, am I missing some thing or were these things not done for profit with a total disreguard for the fish stocks? they couldnt help themselves,if I was in the same position I would probably do the same thing if it was putting food on my table, but that dosnt stop it being short sighted.

[big_cod]

industrial fishing or ****-fishers as we call them not only catch thousands of ton of sandeels but also thousands of tons of small cod.haddocks coalie.pollock etc the sandeels have all these undersize fish swimming with them and with the tiny mesh they stand no chance these **** -fishers should be stopped at once

[Jaffa]

Paranoia? anythings possible Leon

 

"Netters" differentiates very little. Most fishermen use nets but there is as much of a difference between a trawl net, seine net, purse net and a gill net as there is between any other method.

 

I'd guess most southern anglers have a big problem with gill nets; anchored from the shore on their top beach, rigged over their best wrecks and reefs. The word "netter" has power with anglers I reckon. You know better, do you need to use it?

 

Its nice to think that hook and line is a nicer method and im sure most think that way, and on the whole would be right, but some serious damage has been done with that method too - longliners in the Southern Ocean, the demise of our Halibut, Bass fishing off Guernsey atm...

 

No idea when the term commercial crept in but it exists now.

 

Livlihood and profit is the same thing Leon; only people who have all they need don't understand that.

 

Funny thing is that every one of the Whalsay skippers that made a fortune on herring still live in Whalsay and reinvest their money on the island, same with the Burra men, the MacDuff guys and many others. That article you posted went on about corporate thinking but its all a very long way from that. None of them have sold up and buggered off to somewhere "better", leaving the rest behind. The resistance to selling out to corporations has also been huge, deeply entrenched and real.

 

Leon, you post some great stuff, you clearly do a lot of good work but I think you need to get out and explore a bit...

 

Just my opinion and im a paranoid nutter so you can safely ignore

[Jaffa]

big_cod:

industrial fishing or ****-fishers as we call them not only catch thousands of ton of sandeels but also thousands of tons of small cod.haddocks coalie.pollock etc the sandeels have all these undersize fish swimming with them and with the tiny mesh they stand no chance these **** -fishers should be stopped at once

Which industrial fihers big cod? Pout fishers yes your right, sandeels no; just about the lowest bycatch of any fishery at all.

[big_cod]

these boats fish the northwest rough, but if i arent mistaken is only 60ft deep in places one hell of a breeding area many different kinds of species, you ask any fishermen who has fished there and they will tell you it was swarming with small codling so dont tell me the danish **** fishers and thats what they are catch huge amounts of small cod etc in this shallow water this is known fact this ground starts about 80miles off and is hammered by these large ships

[Jaffa]

Large ships?

[Andrew Boyd]

"The Secret Lives of Fishes" by Bernard Gordon makes intresting reading and tell's the story of Cod and many other species off the US East coast + newfoundland etc and their decline due to overfishing. The numbers landed run into massive amounts. So many of some types that they were spread unprocessed on the fields as a source of Nitrogen.

 

Here the North sea Herring fishery, in the first half of the last century, was so vast they said the stocks will never, never ever run out.

 

Leon if your intrested I'll bring it along to next months MMG meeting.