Is it the end for charter skippers and fishing clubs? No time to bury your heads

[glennk]

Getting Arnold Locker to smile.

[Guest binatone]

Getting Arnold Locker to smile.

new boat for mr locker wonder if he can get a crew.may give him a bell.good money on stand by plenty time to fish.

[Guest binatone]

Doc.

Thanks again for replying, I take it you have problems reading what you don’t want to read either. Let just leave it at that I think.

Fishingsfine.

If angling is a sustainable use of fish resources already, why are recreational sea angling representatives asking for bag limits?

I can understand commercial representatives (especially local to Whitby) demanding an end to recreational angling after the slating they have taken on this forum and others.

Glenk and big cod.

You ask why I am concerned what anglers catch.

To tell you the truth I don’t really care that much anymore. As I said before I would not whish on recreational anglers (or anybody else come to that) what has been bestowed on commercial fishermen over the years. And by the looks of things you two are going to let these people pull the wool over your eyes and bring an end to what has been a traditional fishery.

I suppose that charter boats (in our part of the world) could become casualties of there own success. And why? Because a few who cannot catch what you catch are prepared to sacrifice your way of life so they can pursue there’s.

Sorry that’s my personal thoughts on the matter that’s all.

I, the same as you glen and Paul have no problem in obtaining fish (and enjoying our life doing it) unfortunately not all are capable of doing that and therefore pay good money to have the chance.

Like a lot of things in life the bureaucrats (if allowed) will bring a sudden and abrupt halt to people having unrestricted fun. For the would-be bureaucrats own (as has been stated many times on here) none paid, time consuming recreational enjoyment.

Edited June 9, 2006 by binatone

[Guest binatone]

Another wind-up. Out of context.

If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. You were not asked to come here.

 

I can't understand that commercials, whom fire at all and everybody not pleasing them expect nothing in return?

 

Most anglers have nothing against commercial fishing if it's sustainable commercial fishing . When you achieve that I think there will be far less 'slating'. Anglers' frustrations about unsustainable fishing dates back to the times before the Internet and chat forums like this one. Nothing new there. The new thing is that what you call anglers' 'slating' is a tune of anglers reasonable claims based on facts and common sense finally available and picked up by you and others outside the angling community. Hopefully, that'll bring some good things shortly. We have waited long enough for a change to the better.

bag limets, pitcher this man comes over to whitby to fish with big cod,off to sea we go man drops his line down first drop pulls up ling 180 feet ling wacks out its gut,ling no more dead,second drop same again,poor man,what does he do he has his limit,so what does he do watch his mates all day think not two fish over the side.man carrires on untill he has the fish he wants.bag limits may work down south in shallow water but no chance in deep water.so if such a thing should ever happen. all the charter boats on the east coast would be done for.so fight on because there is no catch and return.and your man wont come back to pay again.off to sea now to get it while im aloud. ps big cod you were just used as example so nothing personal.

[glennk]

bag limets, pitcher this man comes over to whitby to fish with big cod,off to sea we go man drops his line down first drop pulls up ling 180 feet ling wacks out its gut,ling no more dead,second drop same again,poor man,what does he do he has his limit,so what does he do watch his mates all day think not two fish over the side.man carrires on untill he has the fish he wants.bag limits may work down south in shallow water but no chance in deep water.so if such a thing should ever happen. all the charter boats on the east coast would be done for.so fight on because there is no catch and return.and your man wont come back to pay again.off to sea now to get it while im aloud. ps big cod you were just used as example so nothing personal.

 

For a trawlerman who doesnt care you are making a lot of noise. If your genuinly concerned (as I suspect you are) contact big cod and get involved. They now have the backing of the local mp, a local tackle dealer, and other charter skippers.

[Leon Roskilly]

Gadoids can be bought up from deep water and released, even if the stomach has been forced out of the mouth by the expanding swim bladder (note it is the stomach that comes our - don't pierce it!)

 

Thank you for your enquiry regarding our cod tagging programme.

 

Our electronic tagging programme began in March 1999, and we have released 380 cod in a number of locations in the North Sea since then, with plans to release 250 to 300 more over the next couple of years. To date we have had 108 tags returned to the lab.

 

Our tagging procedures are very strict. All of our tagging staff ('taggers') are trained and qualified to tag fish, and do so under a personal licence from the UK Home Office. We do not tag cod unless

they are in excellent condition after capture, and all fish are handled extremely carefully during their time on the tagging vessel. We ensure that contact between the taggers and the fish is minimal, that taggers wear latex gloves for when the fish needs to be handled during tag surgery, and that fish are brought aboard and released from the tagging vessel with great care. Fish are returned to the

location of capture within 2 hours of being caught, and are never out of the water for more than a couple of minutes.

 

The biggest problem with cod caught in water deeper than ten metres is the expansion of the swimbladder, a gas filled organ responsible for buoyancy control in cod. Cod control the volume of gas in the swimbladder by either secreting gas into it through a special gland, or absorbing gas into the blood stream. Absorbtion occurs relatively quickly. The size of this organ is pressure dependent, and as an example, a fish brought to the surface (1 atmosphere of pressure) very quickly from ten metres (2 atmospheres of pressure) will experience a reduction in pressure of 50% and the swimbladder will expand. Each 10 metres depth of water exerts a pressure of 1 atmosphere, so a fish at 40 metres will be under a pressure of 5 atmospheres, at 6 atmospheres at 50 metres and so on. With respect to the seriousness of the expansion of the swimbladder, any water deeper than 30 metres can be considered 'deep'. Two things can happen to the swimbladder when it expands. First, it can remain intact and exert outward pressure on the internal organs and the body wall. These organs are compressible to some extent, and the body wall can expand outwards, but if the increase in size of the swimbladder is very large the stomach can be forced out through the mouth. I'm sure you have seen this phenomenon. Alternatively, small holes can form in the swimbladder wall (these repair within a few hours or days), allowing gas to escape into the body cavity. This gas can often escape from the body cavity, but in some cases will remain inside and prevent the fish from exhibiting normal posture and buoyancy. This gas can be vented to the atmosphere with minor surgery.

 

Rod and line caught cod can usually be brought to the surface in good condition, unless the fish has been foul hooked in which case the chances of survival are very slim, and can therefore be returned to the water with a good chance of survival. We bring cod to the surface at as slow a rate as possible (several minutes in water> 40 metres) to minimise the effort expended by the fish when it fights against the line and to maximise the amount of swimbladder gas that the fish can absorb as its depth is decreasing. This therefore minimises the increase in size of the swimbladder. On arrival at the surface, all fish are checked for evidence of buoyancy failure and swimbladder expansion by placing them immediately into a large holding tank. Those requiring' deflation' are operated on and returned to the water, as they are unsuitable for tagging. Of the remaining fish, those in the best condition are tagged and returned carefully to the sea. The longer the cod spends on the tagging vessel prior to

tagging, the more closely it has adjusted its buoyancy to atmospheric pressure because it will absorbs excess gas from the swimbladder into its bloodstream all the time. On release therefore, the cod will find itself much less buoyant than when it was caught. Cod therefore often show a characteristic post-tagging behaviour related to re-inflation of their swimbladders (see chart). This is characterised by a declining average daily depth and occasional rapid ascents or descents that may be interpreted as the fish 'exploring' the limits of its buoyancy. After a few days, cod have usually regained the correct buoyancy for their capture depth, and then behave normally once more. CEF AS have had great success in tagging cod from water as deep as 90 metres, but we collaborate with fisheries institutes in Norway and Iceland where cod captured at more than 200 metres have been successfully tagged and subsequently returned to scientists many months later.

 

 

 

You asked what were the chances of a cod caught in deep water surviving on release, so that anglers could judge the worth of releasing surplus deep water cod. Cod are very robust fish and our data show that after the initial post-tagging behaviour, tagged cod have lived perfectly normal (and we hope happy!) lives, and have migrated to feeding and spawning grounds as they would be expected to. This is borne out by the increase in weight and length offish (when we receive these details). When we have the opportunity to talk to fishermen who have returned cod tags, we invariably hear that the fish were in good condition when captured. I would therefore be optimistic that anglers could return cod to the water provided they were not foul hooked, they were brought to the surface relatively slowly, they were handled minimally and with care, and they were returned to the sea as quickly as possible. I'm afraid I cannot comment on the chances of survival of other species.

 

 

David Righton

 

Fish Behaviour Team Leader

Fisheries Biology Section

CEFAS Lowestoft

 

Please see also 'How to Vent a Fish'

 

http://isurus.mote.org/research/cfe/fish-b...vent-a-fish.htm

 

Is Binatone proposing that bag limits be placed on Ling? :eek:

[glennk]

Dont suppose he will be proposing anything Leon, Remember "To tell you the truth I don’t really care that much anymore"

[Guest binatone]

Dont suppose he will be proposing anything Leon, Remember "To tell you the truth I don’t really care that much anymore"

dont be like that glen,most anglers when pulling up small cod from deep water wind them up as fast as they can thinking bloody whiting by the time it gets to the surface it is done for,seen it many times,belly up with half a dozon fulmers at it in comes mr black back by by codling.

[glennk]

Yes your right they do crank them up and as the doc said a huge reeducation would be required for catch and release to catch on. You would have to play your part in that too. You have undergone a massive transformation yourself from someone who knew nothing about angling in his early post to the forum to someone who has "seen it many times before". At least your being truthful now. Well done.

[Guest binatone]

Yes your right they do crank them up and as the doc said a huge reeducation would be required for catch and release to catch on. You would have to play your part in that too. You have undergone a massive transformation yourself from someone who knew nothing about angling in his early post to the forum to someone who has "seen it many times before". At least your being truthful now. Well done.

its sunday glen,nice to see you have left john alone,there is so much going on out there,out of site out of mind,you would be shocked if you ever saw it,massive boats with massive nets loads of them, taking not the cod not the bass or others but there food thousands of tons of every day.not to mention all the small fry of other species bass cod haddock macks etc.everything take away the bottom of the food chain all will suffer.