Can commercial fishermen and sea anglers work together?

[wurzel]

I'd imagine those that are doing it are not selling to fish merchants but local pubs and restaurants. I know it's small time, but the effect is still bad news for anglers.

 

Hello Steve

Anglers are probably doing most of the selling.

[Leon Roskilly]

Hello Steve

Anglers are probably doing most of the selling.

 

 

If they are selling fish, they are fishing commercially.

 

Therefore they are unlicensed commercial rod and line fishermen, not anglers!

 

And definitely not Recreational Sea Anglers, who fish for recreation not commerce, keeping fish only for their own consumption.

[steve good]

If they are selling fish, they are fishing commercially.

 

Therefore they are unlicensed commercial rod and line fishermen, not anglers!

 

And definitely not Recreational Sea Anglers, who fish for recreation not commerce, keeping fish only for their own consumption.

 

hi leon

 

as far as i am concerned they are all anglers, they belong to your group, alot also belong to angling clubs what they spend in tackle shops accounts towards the billion pounds and 19000 jobs the anglers claim to have created. so they are all yours

 

oh by the way the sfc's are not interested in stopping them, or bradshaw

 

steve

[Steve Coppolo]

Hello Steve

Anglers are probably doing most of the selling.

 

I don't know about most of the selling, although I suspect it does go on to some extent. Which just goes to prove that we need better enforcement.

 

I spoke to our local enforcement officer last week about related problems and he didn't appear to give a flying f***. They seem to rely an awful lot on information from members of the public for people who are paid wages to do the job. Can you imagine asking Joe Bloggs off the street to do your job for you because you find it too difficult? Yet that is what's happening with fisheries enforcement, and we are paying for it!!!!!

 

I want my money back.

[wurzel]

I don't know about most of the selling, although I suspect it does go on to some extent. Which just goes to prove that we need better enforcement.

 

I spoke to our local enforcement officer last week about related problems and he didn't appear to give a flying f***. They seem to rely an awful lot on information from members of the public for people who are paid wages to do the job. Can you imagine asking Joe Bloggs off the street to do your job for you because you find it too difficult? Yet that is what's happening with fisheries enforcement, and we are paying for it!!!!!

 

I want my money back.

 

 

Hello Steve

 

Probably pruduces a lot of unproductive paper work, where as constant regulation and inforcment of the shell fish mineing industry ( cockle dredgeing ) generates a large income for the SFC's in this area.

How much do ESFC and KESFC get from cockle licences compared to angling.

Perhaps if they charged anglers a fee for day permits or season tickets to fish in thier waters they would get the same attention as cockles, mind you for the same level of income the licences would not be cheap.

Like the chicken and eggs, which comes first the, licence or the bass.

Have you any figures Leon?

[Leon Roskilly]

Hello Steve

 

Probably pruduces a lot of unproductive paper work, where as constant regulation and inforcment of the shell fish mineing industry ( cockle dredgeing ) generates a large income for the SFC's in this area.

How much do ESFC and KESFC get from cockle licences compared to angling.

Perhaps if they charged anglers a fee for day permits or season tickets to fish in thier waters they would get the same attention as cockles, mind you for the same level of income the licences would not be cheap.

Like the chicken and eggs, which comes first the, licence or the bass.

Have you any figures Leon?

 

 

At £23 the coarse angling licence produces around £28 million of income for the Environment Agency, and costs around £2.5million for administration and enforcement.

 

The net income raised is spent on fisheries work which gives EA something to do and pleases anglers.

 

What the EA particularly like is that the money raised from anglers is theirs, and they don't have to go begging to the treasury, which is constantly cutting budgets (for DEFRA as well).

 

The EA recognise that to maintain income, they need to create an environment where people continue fishing and continue buying licences, in fact they are very much into the promotion of angling, providing fish, facilities and encouraging more people to take up the sport.

 

The Drew study revealed a 'willingness to spend' over and above what sea anglers currently spend, meaning that with good fishing available, anglers will spend more on more trips, more bait, better tackle and travelling further - and of course licensing.

 

Remember that the migratory fish licence costs some £84.

 

So, it would appear that however much individuals may declare that they are against sea angling licensing (remember that the London Congestion Charge was said to be going to be unworkable and unenforceable with thousands of motorists saying that they simply wouldn't pay), given the right conditions there is money there to be taken off of anglers and spent on providing a better 'angling product' (more and bigger fish), and that would create plenty of jobs within whatever authority would be responsible for collecting and spending the money.

 

However, it wouldn't be a good idea to introduce a licence now, when the perception is that the 'angling experience' has been degraded by years of mismanagement, apparently directed only towards protecting the incomes of the catching sector.

 

If SFCs (or whoever) could deliver management strategies aimed specifically at improving Recreational Sea Angling, and that re-directed management effort was seen to be working, then that would be a time when it might be more reasonable to expect anglers to start paying towards management that is demonstrated to be of benefit to them.

 

 

With regard to Steve's comment about the SFC's reliance on public information, it is much the same for any enforcement agency that they depend heavily on information coming in from the public.

 

The police have Crimeline and Neighbourhood Watch, the EA has a hotline number for reporting pollution and illegal fishing.

 

What is important is that when the public report incidents, that they are investigated and action taken when appropriate, with feedback to whoever reports incidents.

 

Ensuring that people stay within the law is very much down to the community as a whole, with the public and enforcement agencies working in partnership.

 

When everything is just left to the enforcement agency, not only is that extremely inefficient, but it means that the enforcers are no longer the servants of the community, but increasingly our masters.

[Mikec]

If they are selling fish, they are fishing commercially.

 

Therefore they are unlicensed commercial rod and line fishermen, not anglers!

 

And definitely not Recreational Sea Anglers, who fish for recreation not commerce, keeping fish only for their own consumption.

 

A man who belongs to an NFSA club, catches a 10lb bass in a match, wins £200 for best fish is not a commercial fisherman. He is an angler who fishes to win cash prizes.

 

People who sell their excess fish to cover the cost of their day out are not commercial fishermen.

 

However, you wish to avoid the fact Leon, a very large number of people who go fishing make some financial gain from angling.

 

It is just pointless semantics to call this group anything other than anglers. They are in angling clubs, their number and spend are in the figures you quote. They are anglers who break the law.

[Leon Roskilly]

They are anglers who break the law.

 

So report them Mike, to the SFC and the tax man.

 

They are not doing real anglers any favours.

 

And by supplying local markets illegally they take away those markets from licensed fishermen, and reduce the price available so that licensed fishermen have to fish harder and sell more to make up their income.

 

And by taking more than they need for themselves, they are reducing stocks, and licensed fishermen have to reduce the stocks still more to make up the difference.

 

Both licensed fishermen and Recreational Sea Anglers will be well rid of them.

[Mikec]

So report them Mike, to the SFC and the tax man.

 

They are not doing real anglers any favours.

 

And by supplying local markets illegally they take away those markets from licensed fishermen, and reduce the price available so that licensed fishermen have to fish harder and sell more to make up their income.

 

And by taking more than they need for themselves, they are reducing stocks, and licensed fishermen have to reduce the stocks still more to make up the difference.

 

Both licensed fishermen and Recreational Sea Anglers will be well rid of them.

 

We CAN work together!! We do report them and their NFSA club but to prove it is very difficult with the current enforcement rules. Now if we had bag limits....

[wurzel]

At £23 the coarse angling licence produces around £28 million of income for the Environment Agency, and costs around £2.5million for administration and enforcement.

 

The net income raised is spent on fisheries work which gives EA something to do and pleases anglers.

 

What the EA particularly like is that the money raised from anglers is theirs, and they don't have to go begging to the treasury, which is constantly cutting budgets (for DEFRA as well).

 

The EA recognise that to maintain income, they need to create an environment where people continue fishing and continue buying licences, in fact they are very much into the promotion of angling, providing fish, facilities and encouraging more people to take up the sport.

 

The Drew study revealed a 'willingness to spend' over and above what sea anglers currently spend, meaning that with good fishing available, anglers will spend more on more trips, more bait, better tackle and travelling further - and of course licensing.

 

Remember that the migratory fish licence costs some £84.

 

So, it would appear that however much individuals may declare that they are against sea angling licensing (remember that the London Congestion Charge was said to be going to be unworkable and unenforceable with thousands of motorists saying that they simply wouldn't pay), given the right conditions there is money there to be taken off of anglers and spent on providing a better 'angling product' (more and bigger fish), and that would create plenty of jobs within whatever authority would be responsible for collecting and spending the money.

 

However, it wouldn't be a good idea to introduce a licence now, when the perception is that the 'angling experience' has been degraded by years of mismanagement, apparently directed only towards protecting the incomes of the catching sector.

 

If SFCs (or whoever) could deliver management strategies aimed specifically at improving Recreational Sea Angling, and that re-directed management effort was seen to be working, then that would be a time when it might be more reasonable to expect anglers to start paying towards management that is demonstrated to be of benefit to them.

With regard to Steve's comment about the SFC's reliance on public information, it is much the same for any enforcement agency that they depend heavily on information coming in from the public.

 

The police have Crimeline and Neighbourhood Watch, the EA has a hotline number for reporting pollution and illegal fishing.

 

What is important is that when the public report incidents, that they are investigated and action taken when appropriate, with feedback to whoever reports incidents.

 

Ensuring that people stay within the law is very much down to the community as a whole, with the public and enforcement agencies working in partnership.

 

When everything is just left to the enforcement agency, not only is that extremely inefficient, but it means that the enforcers are no longer the servants of the community, but increasingly our masters.

 

Hello Leon

 

Most corse fish are stocked by the local angling clubs, they also make the surrounding banks and access what they are, so anglers pay twice, the club fee and the EA licence.

 

So could FC's become angling clubs? compared to the cockle licences would ESFC and KESFC generate enough income from anglers to warrent the hassle?