Can commercial fishermen and sea anglers work together?

[Ken Davison South Wales]

The charter boat that I work on is not a member of any organisation. We (the members of the crew) don’t fell we have to be.

We go to sea more than anybody else does, take more anglers and catch more fish. We put it down to spending most of our working lives trying to catch fish.

You can either do it or you cannot. Regardless as to what organisation you are in.

No body puts as many hours in, in our pursuit of what anglers want.

We take thousands of anglers to sea every year, I talked to them all the time, I listen to them, it’s my job getting to know what they want. I can honestly say that I have yet to meet one who wants representing.

 

Very strange comments, I have fished on charter boats for over forty years and in the last two decades all of the charter boats I have fished on the skippers have "A" been very profesional and "B" very concerned about conservation of fish stocks. Most of the skippers had previous commercial fishing experience and took a very across the board attitude to current situations.

 

PS We always give crab pots etc a wide berth as our tackle is very costly and not to be thrown away lightly

[Guest challenge]

Ken.

Where did you get the idea from that we where unprofessional? Was that because we did not feel the need to be in an organisation? Or be represented?

Perhaps our hands on experience with governing bodies and people who have said all through our commercial carers that they have had our best interest at heart have been nothing more than a nightmare.

As for our approach to the conservation of fish stocks, you only have to look at all the articles that John has written over the years to see his and our commitment to conservation.

There is a boat (potter) in our harbour that we have permission to go aboard anytime and take as many lures as we want from the big bath that he has under his winch, it’s there just for throwing anglers gear in that he gets all summer. It’s always full.

Fishing fine.

I honestly don’t think that wurzel wants our business, he is quite happy with his own.

I think what his comments say to me is that if angling representation lobbies hole heartedly to create conservation areas then commercial fishermen will do the same to enforce that these area (if they ever come about) will include RSA in there exclusion of activates.

I suppose that is only to be expected.

Regards.

[Guest challenge]

Indeed, this is what to expect. But only wurzel and the commercial bodies know their true and full agenda. And it might contain a couple of surprises for you. It would be naive to believe that they would tell everything on their mind to you.

 

Overfishing is a result of all fishermen taken together 'trying to make a (good) living'/not go burst. In this light overfishing is not an intended activity meant to do harm to neither commercial fishing nor charterboating. Nevertheless, against all good intenetions overfishing does harm both sectors and RSA. MPAs is an antidote against that (which is not to say that I support 'hole heartedly' MPA creations or believe they are the only or best solution to fix the present problems - it all depends on the commercials' willingness to reduce overfishing and how fast they want to do it).

 

Even if wurzel doesn't 'want your business' he could still -with or without intention- do harm to it now and later.

 

We know by experience from other parts of the world that finding the proper places for MPAs based on science and conservation criteria is only the first part of the game. When stakeholders are asked for comments you'll see several MPAs moved to other places despite all good scientific advices and warnings.

 

And you say you would just watch this whole process from the sideline? Do you think the commercials would do the same? No way! Neither would anglers (if your are lucky they'll speak your case as part of their own - the free rider problem yet again). The commercials will try send as many MPAs away from waters of their interest to other places where they could harm less their business (short term thinking) - no mater if this means hurting your charterboat business or not. Check MPAs re USA and Australia. You wouldn't have to search for long to see what I am talking about.

No I did not say I would watch the whole process from the side line, you have just said that.

What I am saying is, I know what you’re trying to sell here fishing fine but I have experienced it before and I still bare the scares (mentally) and have no intentions of buying into any form of self applied bureaucracy if I can help it.

Sorry mate but I have more faith in the commercial sector than I do in angling representation at this point in time.

Unfortunately for your course,from my experience (in this part of the world) so do the anglers.

[seaside]

No I did not say I would watch the whole process from the side line, you have just said that.

What I am saying is, I know what you’re trying to sell here fishing fine but I have experienced it before and I still bare the scares (mentally) and have no intentions of buying into any form of self applied bureaucracy if I can help it.

Sorry mate but I have more faith in the commercial sector than I do in angling representation at this point in time.

Unfortunately for your course,from my experience (in this part of the world) so do the anglers.

 

Must be the air in Whitby - but I haven't the faintest idea what you are on about.

 

What do you think fishingfine is trying to sell ?

 

Are you suggesting that those who currently represent sea anglers such as the NFSA, WFSA, SFSA, BASS, SACN, SOS,.... etc should quietly chuck it all in and disband ?

 

Or are you suggesting that they should be replaced by such as yourself ?

 

Or that perhaps that the netting element of the commercial sector should become a lead agency for RSA ?

 

Now please don't accuse me of putting words in your mouth, I'm not, but as I can't filter the rhetoric I really don't understand what you are proposing or what your response is to the question raised at the beginning of this thread.

[Guest challenge]

Must be the air in Whitby - but I haven't the faintest idea what you are on about.

 

What do you think fishingfine is trying to sell ?

 

Are you suggesting that those who currently represent sea anglers such as the NFSA, WFSA, SFSA, BASS, SACN, SOS,.... etc should quietly chuck it all in and disband ?

 

Or are you suggesting that they should be replaced by such as yourself ?

 

Or that perhaps that the netting element of the commercial sector should become a lead agency for RSA ?

 

Now please don't accuse me of putting words in your mouth, I'm not, but as I can't filter the rhetoric I really don't understand what you are proposing or what your response is to the question raised at the beginning of this thread.

What I am saying is what I said, I want no body to disband anything, all I am saying is I want to stay apart of what I am. An independent RSA who just happens to make a reasonable living out of RSA.

All I can give you are my views and the views of the hundreds of anglers that I talk to extensively every season.

[Guest challenge]

Well, and I know what you’re trying to sell here challenge. So do the thinking part of anglers, which I believe are in the majority.

 

Do charterboating and commercial fishing share the same interests at all times? If not which sector's interests do you really defend I wonder? Charterboating?

Could it be that you have become a victim of your days as a commercial fisherman? Some inspiration:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony

'Hegemony is the dominance of one group over other groups, with or without the threat of force, to the extent that, for instance, the dominant party can dictate the terms of trade to its advantage; more broadly, cultural perspectives become skewed to favour the dominant group. Hegemony controls the ways that ideas become "naturalized" in a process that informs notions of common sense.

Throughout history, cultural and political power in any arena has rarely achieved a perfect balance, but hegemony results in the empowerment of certain cultural beliefs, values, and practices to the submersion and partial exclusion of others. Hegemony affects the perspective of mainstream history, as history is written by the victors for a sympathetic readership. The official history of Christianity, marginalizing its defined "heresies", provides a richly-exampled arena of cultural hegemony.

 

Jás Elsner, in Imperial Rome and Christian Triumph (1998), has written:

 

"Power is very rarely limited to the pure exercise of brute force.... The Roman state bolstered its authority and legitimacy with the trappings of ceremonial — cloaking the actualities of power beneath a display of wealth, the sanction of tradition, and the spectacle of insuperable resources.... Power is a far more complex and mysterious quality than any apparently simple manifestation of it would appear. It is as much a matter of impression, of theatre, of persuading those over whom authority is wielded to collude in their subjugation. Insofar as power is a matter of presentation, its cultural currency in antiquity (and still today) was the creation, manipulation, and display of images. In the propagation of the imperial office, at any rate, art was power."

May be I have become a victim of reality? That’s if I have become a victim at all?

I have never looked at my self as a victim. Strange how you seam to think that if my thoughts on RSA are different to yours I am not thinking and a victim.

I love your quotes on power.

As for loyalties,well mine has always been to my class, where do yours lie?

[glennk]

I have spoken to a few commercial fishermen in Whitby over the last couple of days on this subject.

Now you have got to remember that they where only commenting on what happens in Whitby and not nationwide.

They asked me “who are they suppose to work with?” They said that besides removing tons of anglers fishing gear from there crab pots etc when do they come in contact with them?

2 out of the 8 fishermen I talked to know of this forum and said that they had read (occasionally) what has been said about commercial fishermen on this forum.

The rest said that they had not (3 because they did not have a computer) and 3 because they showed know interest.

The 2 that had read what had been said where disgusted at allegations that had been made but said” that it was understandable coming from people who where only capable of making allegations.” (There words not mine) there views of the charter boats in Whitby where that they where a bit of a joke. (I took it that they meant the charter boat that I work on as well.)

They did not seam interested in that they find angling boats and there representatives more or less insignificant when it comes to them earning a living from the sea.

One commercial fishermen did point out that commercials tend to watch each other, take note what there performances are like jugged by there colleagues. If somebody is doing better than you, find out what they are doing that you are knot.

If your fishing is in decline find ways of improving it.

They say that if angling is in decline then maybe they should see who is doing the better and find out what he is doing that they are not and try and compete, not sit in the pub’s and complain.

Personally in this part of the world I don’t think that there would be any point anglers and commercials forming committees or consultation groups. Why should they. What are the commercial fishermen who have worked all there lives at sea, going to say to a load of part time ex butchers backers and candle stick makers who take a few anglers off to sea for a few weeks of the year? Because that’s what we are.

When I was on the trawlers I must say that I found it quite amusing (when we got in on a Saturday morning) seeing these little boats going out at seven on a morning with there rods and happy smiling faces to sea to catch the same fish that we had spent 110 hours a week in all weathers trying to catch.

You can call commercial fishermen as much as you want, but I worked with them for many years (apart of there industry) and I found them to be the salt of the earth, people you could rely on, people that actually care about there environment and future.

People who have witnessed the hazards of the sea and show it the respect it deserves.

You ask any private boat if a commercial fisherman have ever let them down in time of need.

Show them the respect they deserve and earn respect from them and I am sure that they would be room for an open dialogue between booth sets of interested parties.

 

 

Perhaps you should have sought the advice of binatone in your recent field study. He was an old school commercial fisherman who used to frequent this forum just before you arrived. He mentions your operation - chieftain charters by name in a claim to wsf that anglers are damaging fish stocks. Perhaps he thinks your a joke too ? or Perhaps he thinks charter angling should be banned and you should be out of a job.

 

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/show...1979&page=3

[Ian Burrett]

What I am saying is what I said, I want no body to disband anything, all I am saying is I want to stay apart of what I am. An independent RSA who just happens to make a reasonable living out of RSA.

All I can give you are my views and the views of the hundreds of anglers that I talk to extensively every season.

 

Hi Challenge

 

So do you consider that the, and i quote from a previous post "thousand of anglers you take out each year" are representative of sea anglers in general.

 

Your mate Binotone posted that you land thousands of stone of fillets each year, That's hardly Recreational angling so I guess you will have no complaints if you get "quoted" with commercial fisherman as I am sure many commercial fisherman would like to land thousands of stones of fillets

[Mikec]

Hi everyone, been busy making sure the class of 2002 never make a reunion. However, enough time to join this discussion.

 

Looking at 5 pages of the debate I think the question should be ' can sea anglers work together?

[ColinW]

... been busy making sure the class of 2002 never make a reunion....

 

What more needs to be said?