Baits that blow out

[borntofish]

Why do we say a bait blows, I have been using the same bait for close on twenty years in the same water and I still land fish. I do try new baits some are better or I land bigger fish on certain baits

 

I keep and breed Koi for a hobby and it is harder to change the diet of the koi onto a new type of food, to say change from pellets that float to pellets that sink.

 

Surly once you have got fish onto your bait it should not have to change. I read things like I used to catch fish with bread now I have to use boilies.

 

I just want to get the feeling of the forum on this.

 

Roger

[RobStubbs]

99.9% of it is people looking for excuses to blame their poor results on. I don't believe any baits blow - certainly not boilies ! The only one I could possibly accept is corn/maize if used to extreme but even then I doubt it.

 

Rob.

[borntofish]

Rob,

That is one bait, I know for sure cannot blow is maize, it is used by thousands here in South Africa and tons of fish are taked on maize.

 

I mean the recipie for maize paste has stayed the same for forty years I have fished, one cup cake flour, three cups of maize meal, cooked in four cups of water, add sugar if you want to. I can tell you tons of fish fall to that bait every day.

 

Roger

[peter mccue]

I can assure you chaps, a bait certainly can blow! However there is a set of circumstances needed for it to happen.

 

firstly overuse of a bait with very few freebies going in, if the only time they see a bait there is a good chance they're going to get hooked on it, they will soon tie the two together. But maintaining prebaiting when not fishing will keep them coming it's far more difficult to make that link.

 

Secondly, food value, a good quality bait will keep on going long after the runs dry up with a poor quality bait.

 

Thirdly, colours can make them very wary of a bait, if everybody suddenly decides flouro yellow or such like is the colour to use, then it doesn't take a fishy Einstein too long to see a source of danger in that particular colour.

 

Probably the most important factor in present day Carping, is the stock levels in a lot of the waters nowadays. Often the levels are so high the carp are permanantly hungry & this mitigates the effect of a bait blowing. Waters where Carp are well fed by natural means are a different story. Having said that, even on waters where the stock level is too high for them to behave in a natural manner, a change of bait from what is generally used ie shape, colour, food value, texture, smell etc can result in stunning increases in catches purely because the run of the mill baits have to a certain extent blown.

 

A little surprised to see the post about the difficulty in weaning Koi onto other foodstuffs, I have no such problems with mine. They are quite literally Pigs with fins!!!!

[Texas Red]

I tend to rotate my bait, more through choice than anything.

I use bread, sweet corn and boilies mainly but have tried tiger nuts, lupins etc.

I find I get the best results on either corn or bread but I like trying new flavour boilies just to see how they do, if I get no joy then its back to the old faithful bread and corn

[DJMCJERICO]

I could eat pie and mash for tea every day for a week, after that I would get bored with it and stop for a couple of months and then just have it when I fancy it.

 

But then I have a sandwich more or less every day, it’s always made with bread but has different fillings.

 

 

Fish are the same, they get onto a new bait/flavour and enjoy it because it's different, then everybody gets on that bait, Then say 2 kilo's of that bait goes in the water a day, 14 kilo's a week, that’s 56 kilo's of the same bait in a month, the fish get bored and move onto the next "wonder Bait".

 

 

With particle bait like corn I think it's different because it's smaller and the small fish just gobble it up before any wary carp gets to it, then we go and put 1, 2, 3 or more bits on a hair with a size six hook and the smaller fish can't eat it, a carp comes along, spies that its been left and takes the opportunity.

 

Nearly every course angler use's corn, they chuck it in and any bits that the small fish don’t get to end up on the bottom hidden in weed that the small fish wont rummage through to get, making it safe bait.

 

That’s my crazy way of thinking anyway

[Dick Dastardly]

Im with Peter.Baits dont blow as quickly/regularly as they used to simply because (like the Koi in a pond or Goldfish in a bowl) they have no choice but to eat them!Peter touched on the fact that this is down to so many waters having such high stocking levels these days.

 

Try fishing on a very rich water with the same bait for 20 years!

 

Rob is quite right though that many use this as just an excuse!

 

DJMC,I think you are guilty of atributing human qualities to the fish! I doubt that any fish ever gets fed up/bored with any food source.The only reason they stop feeding on anything is if they have become wary of it and there is an alternative.

 

A good example of a fishs reaction to bait/food source is as follows-

 

Back in the late 70's a small water I used to fish was really productive to floating crust.A friend of mine took a couple of the smaller carp (around 8lb) that he caught and put them in his garden pond (quite a large one I will hasten to add) after around 3-4 seasons of us fishing and regularly catching the carp on floating crust it started to become increasingly harder.I now defy anyone to take a carp on crust from the water! Most strangely even much younger fish that werent even born during the 70's! they seemed to learn by "assosiation" The older fish would (and still do) bolt when they come across large pieces of crust.Meanwhile their relatives back in the garden pond happily take floating crust.Why because along with floating pellets that is the main food source they have available.No real alternative exists and they dont seem to have the same "collective assosiation" in fact the reverse exists as they soon started feeding on crust in the pond when the origonal population was feeding happily on it!

 

One bait that Ive found tends to buck this trend are Tiger Nuts.Yes after they have been heavily used (and baited) for a few seasons the carp do become wary of them (I once again have witnessed carp spook off large beds of tigers) However there apears to be something about them that the fish just cant resist! I know of one extremely hard water where you would struggle to catch carp full stop where they would happily pick up single hook bait tigers or tigers fished in "safe areas" after over 15 years of them being used.

 

I mentioned "safe areas".A good test of a baits "attraction" is that it will still catch in "safe areas" long after it has blown in normal areas.

 

I have always found that the more "instant" a boillie is normally the quicker it blows.I put this down to the fact that most (if not all) "instant" boillies rely on high vis colouring or high flavour/smell levels.These very same properties that the fish quickly learn to associate with "good food" are exactly the same that they learn to associate with "danger".

 

On the other hand (as mentioned by Peter) baits of a good HNV value do seem to last longer than "crap" baits.Notably a good HNV bait which has a pretty neutral colour and extremely low flavour/smell level seems to last the longest.

 

With size then yes the smaller the bait the less likely to blow it is.Hemp being a prime example.The fish cant feed by picking up individual grains of hemp so simply hoover everything in.This means they seem to not link the experience of being caught to the hemp.

 

On the subject of bait though,remember that the carp dont read Carp World,Total Carp etc so when you do fish a "new" water where none of the "old" baits have been used then the carp will still love them if you try them.Totally daft to go in with the latest bait.The modern baits arnt that much better its just that they are different so make it easy on your self and use some of the older baits.

[poledark]

I,m with Budgie on this, but as an "old timer" my views are coloured by experience of how carp reacted during the old close season days.

 

As Budgie said, mostly used bread crust in those days, and you could catch on the 16th, 17th and maybe the 18th June, but that was usually the end of crust fishing for that season. The fish would stil take freebies, but nothing with a hook or line attached.

So the assumption was that it wasn't the bread they were scared of (blown) but the way it was presented.

 

Budgie advises against attributing human senses to carp, but if someone stuck a hook in you everytime you ate an ice cream (or whatever) then you would soon stop eating ice creams

 

I have always assumed (from years of watching them) that carp or only scared/wary when feeding...they will lay about in full view and sometimes you can actually touch one (before it shoots off )

 

 

One also has to take in to account the type of water and the stock levels...the topic is really only relevent on fairly lightly stocked waters, I have fished some lakes with very high stock levels and sat in amazement that the carp can be so naive....they get caught on the same bait/method day after day....I equate carp with wariness, but that is due to my earlier years of fishing for them in lakes with only a handful of fish in 5 acres (or more).

 

Do baits blow? definitely yes, some of the fish will only ever get caught on a particular bait once in their lives, others (mug fish? ) seem to enjoy having their pic taken, and will eat anything just for the chance to appear on "Carp Talk"

 

Den

[borntofish]

Chaps,

In summing up, what I read is presentation blows, but not the bait in itself or as such, I mean carp still take a bread crust.

 

Yes I know about fish that seem to love having thier pics, we have one here nick name tiger nut, if you do not bag her the first time you catch her you are going to haul her out a few times in a session.

 

I think well I know our water are over stocked, so again baits do not have to change. One of the bad things in a way is here a lot of carp are removed for eating so cannot tell thier mates.

 

So I think I will say presentation is to be looked at before you change a bait.

 

Thanks

 

Roger

[Dick Dastardly]

Den has added some really good points there that I forgot to mention.

 

Yes the closed season/opening day phenonomen! I remember that to well.Ive had carp (on a very difficult,rich water) boilling the water over a large bed of buck wheat during the weeks leading up to the "glorious 16th" only for them to totally avoid the area and the bait for the whole of the season.Why is/was this they certainly cant be that clever to have been aware of our fishing rules!I remeber several waters where indeed the "Carp season" only effectively lasted a week!

 

Very true point about them only being truely wary whilst feeding.When they are spawning you can indeed wade out amongst them and touch them! Maybe a big carps ONLY bad experiences are from being hooked,therefore making feeding a time for caution?

 

As for "Mug" fish, let me first of all quote Den!-

" Budgie advises against attributing human senses to carp, but if someone stuck a hook in you everytime you ate an ice cream (or whatever) then you would soon stop eating ice creams"

 

Certainly would! unless of course a problem with my dietry system meant it was the only thing I could eat/I had to eat it to survive.

 

It has long been believed (yet to my knowledge no actual scientific research has been done) that "Mug" fish need to feed far more than normal fish.This may be down to a digestive problem,tapeworm infestation or what evever but the bottom line is the fish has to eat as much and as often as possible to survive.Anglers baits offer an ideal food source for fish in this situation.

 

I know two "mug" fish that have deformed mouths (not due to being constantly caught I might add) If you watch either trying to feed you can see they struggle.Maybe another reason for them feeding both more and less cautiously?

 

Or of course they could just be stupid or greedy! er a bit like me! Seriously though I see no reason why fishs inteligence shouldnt vary amongst individuals? or an individual fishs apetite vary?

(cant remember the name for the still hungry/full up response)