Airgun death in Stoke-on-Trent

[Sportsman]

The law in Scotland has not changed that much since iI left in 1987

 

Section 19 of the Firearms Act 1968, makes it an offence to have in any public place, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof shall lie with him/her) any of the following: -

 

1) A loaded shotgun

2) A loaded air weapon

3) Any other firearm loaded, or unloaded if the person also has suitable ammunition in his/her possession

 

A public place is defined as "any road and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise"

 

Pretty much as I said above.

Wether or not they had a reasonable excuse would depend on what they were doing.

The post states that the Police attended and did nothing which suggests that they had a reasonable excuse, or at least one that satisfied the Police and my experience has been that if the Police suspect that they can get you for a firearm offence, they will

[corydoras]

Pretty much as I said above.

Wether or not they had a reasonable excuse would depend on what they were doing.

The post states that the Police attended and did nothing which suggests that they had a reasonable excuse, or at least one that satisfied the Police and my experience has been that if the Police suspect that they can get you for a firearm offence, they will

I was stopped once. I was 14 (at that time, perfectly legal) I had an air riffle and I was walking on the pavement to a place where I had permission from the land owner tho shoot rabbits. That was a reasonable excuse. The firearme MUST be in a case though.

[flibb]

This from a police training manual.

 

"The Highways Act 1980, s 161 provides that a person is guilty of an offence if, without lawful authority or excuse, he discharges any firearm within 50 feet from the centre of any highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence thereof a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. It is important to remember that the discharge is not prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that an injury to someone, or that someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with (for example being forced to make a detour) or that someone was endangered, i.e., put in danger of injury. ‘Highway’ for the purposes of this section is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles; consequently it does not include footpaths, cycle tracks, bridleways, or cattle tracks.

 

The offence is not committed if the person discharging the firearm has a lawful authority or excuse for doing so, as where the discharge occurred during a clay pigeon shoot which involved shooting down the field and away from the highway."

 

 

Also worth noting that footpaths are owned by the landowner, so if you have permission to be there by the owner you can carry a firearm. If you haven't got permission think you can be done with armed trespass. Also a firearm (inc air rifle) is classed as laoded if the mag has rounds in it, even if the mags in your pocket.

 

Jon

Edited August 22, 2006 by flibb

[corydoras]

This from a police training manual.

 

"The Highways Act 1980, s 161 provides that a person is guilty of an offence if, without lawful authority or excuse, he discharges any firearm within 50 feet from the centre of any highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence thereof a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. It is important to remember that the discharge is not prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that an injury to someone, or that someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with (for example being forced to make a detour) or that someone was endangered, i.e., put in danger of injury. ‘Highway’ for the purposes of this section is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles; consequently it does not include footpaths, cycle tracks, bridleways, or cattle tracks.

 

The offence is not committed if the person discharging the firearm has a lawful authority or excuse for doing so, as where the discharge occurred during a clay pigeon shoot which involved shooting down the field and away from the highway."

Also worth noting that footpaths are owned by the landowner, so if you have permission to be there by the owner you can carry a firearm. If you haven't got permission think you can be done with armed trespass. Also a firearm (inc air rifle) is classed as laoded if the mag has rounds in it, even if the mags in your pocket.

 

Jon

Scots law is much stricter in this respect. If for example you had a Lee Enfileld .303 you would be commiting an offence if you discharged it within 3 miles of a public road.

[RobStubbs]

Scots law is much stricter in this respect. If for example you had a Lee Enfileld .303 you would be commiting an offence if you discharged it within 3 miles of a public road.

 

Just as well that doesn't apply in England then as that would outlaw most firing ranges, including military ones. Or rather outlaw fullbore rifle shooting.

 

Rob.

Edited August 23, 2006 by RobStubbs

[Chris Goddard]

Sorry Chris, but what was the crime? You say with rifles. Were they pointing them at anything, were they firing them, were they sleeved? There is no offence as far as I know in walking and carrying a rifle (air rifle?) on a public footpath within 10 feet of a road. There may be an offence if they were discharging them

 

Found this after writing the above. May be relevant

 

A person who without lawful authority or reasonable excuse has with him in a public place a loaded shotgun, an air or loaded air weapon (whether loaded or not), or any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or an imitation firearm commits an offence under section 19 of the Firearms Act 1968.

 

As always the devil is in the detail

Define reasonable excuse.

 

On a PUBLIC footpath?? On land OWNED by British Waterways (IE Privately owned) NO EXCUSE!!

[Sportsman]

On a PUBLIC footpath?? On land OWNED by British Waterways (IE Privately owned) NO EXCUSE!!

 

The Police obviously thought there was

[Chris Goddard]

Sorry but there was NOT and hence my post!! One mans meat......... Next thing ytou know a 12 year old is DEAD!!!

[Sportsman]

Sorry but there was NOT and hence my post!! One mans meat......... Next thing ytou know a 12 year old is DEAD!!!

 

Chris, I am not arguing with you but you said that the Police attended and nothing was done. Therefore they obviously accepted the guys reasons for being there. If the Police have a reason for taking action against a gun owner or gun carrier, believe me they will.

BTW the 12 year old was shot in a house, possibly by his friends, almost certainly due to playing with something they should not have been playing with (and which they should not have had access to, but thats another point) so it doesn't really have anything to do with legally carrying a gun on a footpath, and trust me, those guys were legal, no question, or the Police would have taken action

[Wordbender]

Sorry but there was NOT and hence my post!! One mans meat......... Next thing ytou know a 12 year old is DEAD!!!

 

Chris, people shoot on private land with full permission from the owners/managers. Could these shooters not have had permission?

 

As for the 'shooting within 50 feet of the centre of a public highway' law, that states 'if by so doing, you cause inconvenience or distress to those using the footpath/highway'.

 

I'm the official spokesman on airguns for the Shooting Sports Trust and I study many of the 'airgun incidents' that make the press. Without exception, and I mean without exception, these incidents are caused either by someone breaking existing laws, or someone ignoring the unwritten law of common sense and/or parental responsibility. An airgun is like a power tool. Who on earth allows very young children to mess around, unsupervised, with such things?

 

The same goes for kitchen knives, bicycles, electricity and dozens of other items that can be either used responsibly, or criminally and recklessly abused. The fact is, the laws we need are already in place - if only they were used to their full deterrent effect.