Whoose job is it ?

[Guest challenge]

Quote wurzel.

 

I don't see the point in a close season during the optimal spawning period, no matter when you catch a large cod it won't spawn again, and I am not sure whether it is possible to catch cod while they are in the act of spawning, I don't know of any large spawning aggregations of cod, unlike herring. In this area Cod start to have decent roes in them around November by January they are fit to burst, they disappear and come back in March empty, the same applied when I worked from Whitby, so if you banned cod fishing during January and February, Just who would you be protecting the cod from?

 

Bravo, well said that man.

Regards.

[sam-cox]

QUOTE: Norm:Forget global warming as an excuse. The reason , IMHO, that cod are in decline is, 1. Overfishing, 2. Shortage of food for the juvenile fish. There is no point whatsoever in having a cod recovery plan that doesn't include a plan for providing the basics of life, i.e. food. The sandeels are being hammered by industrial fishing, likewise pout. Shrimps and prawns are now being intensively fished as an alternative to cod and haddock. In some areas crabs are being potted to extinction for pot bait etc. These are all things that young cod need to survive, big cod just eat each other and anything else in the sea.

Stop fishing for big cod for a few years, leave enough food for the resultant spawnings and within a few years we'll have cod again. Sounds simplistic, it is but sometimes the simple ideas work best. At least give it a go for a few years.

 

 

The trouble is that politics gets in the way of any action!

[Norm B]

QUOTE: Norm:Forget global warming as an excuse. The reason , IMHO, that cod are in decline is, 1. Overfishing, 2. Shortage of food for the juvenile fish. There is no point whatsoever in having a cod recovery plan that doesn't include a plan for providing the basics of life, i.e. food. The sandeels are being hammered by industrial fishing, likewise pout. Shrimps and prawns are now being intensively fished as an alternative to cod and haddock. In some areas crabs are being potted to extinction for pot bait etc. These are all things that young cod need to survive, big cod just eat each other and anything else in the sea.

Stop fishing for big cod for a few years, leave enough food for the resultant spawnings and within a few years we'll have cod again. Sounds simplistic, it is but sometimes the simple ideas work best. At least give it a go for a few years.

The trouble is that politics gets in the way of any action!

Don't forget vested interests too Sam.

[big_cod]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Norm B @ Aug 26 2006, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Forget global warming as an excuse. The reason , IMHO, that cod are in decline is, 1. Overfishing, 2. Shortage of food for the juvenile fish. There is no point whatsoever in having a cod recovery plan that doesn't include a plan for providing the basics of life, i.e. food. The sandeels are being hammered by industrial fishing, likewise pout. Shrimps and prawns are now being intensively fished as an alternative to cod and haddock. In some areas crabs are being potted to extinction for pot bait etc. These are all things that young cod need to survive, big cod just eat each other and anything else in the sea.

Stop fishing for big cod for a few years, leave enough food for the resultant spawnings and within a few years we'll have cod again. Sounds simplistic, it is but sometimes the simple ideas work best. At least give it a go for a few years.

Good Idea Norm, the only cod fishing done on the south east coast these days is by anglers, other than a hand full of boats fishing from Whitby on cod for a short time during the herring spawn and a couple of gill netters from Grimsby I don't know of any direct cod fishing being done from Harwich to Peter Head.

I can't see how the level of commercial cod fishing being done at the moment has any effect on the cod

[/quote

 

wurzel ,

 

Who told you there is no trawlers fishing for cod along the east coast there is 2 pair teams working constantly out of scarborough when defra did a survey just under 2 years ago with one pair team from scarborough against one single trawler from whitby the catch rate difference was 10-1 now this was during daylight which pair trawling has big advantage over single trawling the effort was equiverlent to 20single boats fishing during daylight plus there has been only a couple single trawlers working white fish all summer and we are nowhere near spawning time as the herring havent arrived yet.

Edited August 30, 2006 by big_cod

[The doctor]

Bravo, well said that man.

Regards.

 

I must be in a minority here because according to Wurzel and challege you don't catch cod from January to March, not my experience by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Firstly because a fish has roe or melts in it in November it doesn't mean its in a heightened spawning condition, there are a number of maturation stages, the one that really counts is the one where its as Wurzel puts it 'bursting' or running. If you were to take literally what Wurzel was saying then you would need to not catch cod at all. That was not what I said, I agree once a cod has been caught it is never going to spawn, but to take it weeks before it does, helps nobody, not the fishery (anglers and commercial alike) nor the stock potential or SSB.

 

The reason closed areas where disregarded was due to the fact that the fishing fleet fished harder around the periphery of the closed area, concentrating effort and intercepting fish as they migrated into the closed zone. The result was increased impact to the seabed and benthic fauna and a reduction in fish accessing the closed box. If nobody catches cod during this time what the hell were the fleets doing there.

 

One of the points for discussion at a previous RAC meeting was the issue of changing the quota year, principally to alleviate the wranglings at the December council and ensuing gold rush and horse trading that followed, however, a major benefit would have been that if the quota year had been put back to April, come January, February and March, much of the quota would have already been taken up. Resulting in more fish spawning due to the limited quota left, as opposed to the present state where the principal spawning stage coincides with the initial uptake of the quota and the resultant headlong rush to catch as much as is possible. Unfortuantely the proposal got nowhere due to opposition from a certain position (which I'll not go into). But what is mystifying, if nobody catches cod ("they disappear") why the reluctance to change the quota year, which would ultimately benefit all in the long term.

 

What I find even more mystifying is your persistant willingness Challenge to decry any measures that would benefit all (including fish populations) preferring instead to ally yourself to the antiquated live for today sector that is the mind set of some sections of the commercial fraternity. I take it these views are those of just yourself and not of John, do your anglers also share this short term negative position. What do you do during January to April if there are no cod to catch? I appreciate the weather isn't at its best but the fishing can be awesome.

 

Al I can say is that if the charter boat sector can't see the green for the black then they'll find themselves in troubled waters

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Doc.

[Jaffa]

Interesting post doc, though i doubt either wurzel or challenge meant all cod just leave the area in those months.

 

I understand you can't go into detail on who opposed what in these meetings but are you able to put up their arguement against moving the December council? or would that give away who they are? If so i understand.

 

Chris

[The doctor]

Interesting post doc, though i doubt either wurzel or challenge meant all cod just leave the area in those months.

 

I understand you can't go into detail on who opposed what in these meetings but are you able to put up their arguement against moving the December council? or would that give away who they are? If so i understand.

 

Chris

 

 

Yeah sorry Chris, it would be too obvious. I think there was broad agreement that it could be a good move, unfortunately the dissenters just couldn't seem to dot the i's and cross the t's (always the case when there are financial implications). Another issue was the timing of the Norway - EU agreement and discussions that take place each year prior to the Council.

 

 

Doc.

[Jaffa]

Fair enough.

 

Do you believe these RAC's are the way forward then? I have seen positive reaction to them in the FN from pelagic guys (futures so bright you gotta wear shades for many of them) but never seen an in depth opinion on them from an RSA, whitefish, or shellfish fisherman.

 

I realise you are constrained in what is sensible to say but do you have any links to anything on RAC's that would be worth a read?

[Leon Roskilly]

do you have any links to anything on RAC's that would be worth a read?

 

 

RACS in General: http://www.nsrac.org/status/dce2004.pdf

 

 

 

North Sea RAC

 

http://www.nsrac.org/

 

 

 

North Western Waters EAC

 

http://www.nwwrac.org/

 

 

 

Pelagic Stocks RAC

 

http://www.pelagic-rac.org/

 

 

 

Baltic Sea RAC

 

http://www.bsrac.org/

Edited August 31, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Guest challenge]

Quote

Big cod.

Who told you there is no trawlers fishing for cod along the east coast there is 2 pair teams working constantly out of Scarborough when defra did a survey just under 2 years ago with one pair team from Scarborough against one single trawler from whitby the catch rate difference was 10-1 now this was during daylight which pair trawling has big advantage over single trawling the effort was equivalent to 20single boats fishing during daylight plus there has been only a couple single trawlers working white fish all summer and we are nowhere near spawning time as the herring haven’t arrived yet.

Quote.

Big cod let me assure you that pair trawling has not got anywhere near the effectiveness of a 10 to 1 over single trawling.

I have been pair trawling and single trawling, there is only under certain conditions and area you work in that pair trawling will actually improve your fishing.

The few boats that do it today, on our part of the coast do it purely for economical reasons. I.e. they don’t burn as much fuel.

What difference is the herring fishery going to make to the trawling activity at Whitby? Very little because there are no boats.

You seam to talk as if pair trawling is a new method of fishing. They have been fishing the pair trawl from Whitby for as long as I can remember, with about the same results as they get now. Sometimes you get lucky.

 

Quote doc

What I find even more mystifying is your persistent willingness Challenge to decry any measures that would benefit all (including fish populations) preferring instead to ally yourself to the antiquated live for today sector that is the mind set of some sections of the commercial fraternity. I take it these views are those of just yourself and not of John, do your anglers also share this short term negative position. What do you do during January to April if there are no cod to catch? I appreciate the weather isn't at its best but the fishing can be awesome.

doc

So are you saying that my views against a bag limit are antiquated because they have been around for a long time?

Are you saying that now that john and Michele have got a successful business flourishing because we are providing what anglers want, we should stop?

Managing our fishery in the way that we do (only visiting most wrecks once a year at the most) is this what you mean by a short term negative approach doc?

The way that we manage our fishery is supported by all our anglers.

What I will not stand bye and let happen is for one fishery in one part of the world dictate what all anglers must do.

We work very hard to give anglers (that come with us) what they want. The same as big cod and his inshore fishing fraternity do with there anglers.

We may have different views on why there is not the fish today that there was a few years ago.

So what’s wrong with that?(Different backgrounds different opinions.) We are quite happy with (and at times I personally think there is far too much) the amount of fish we catch and so are our anglers. If that is an antiquated live for today sector then so be it.

Edited August 31, 2006 by challenge