livebaiting

[Squiffy]

Livebaiting will always be a hot potato.

 

Ive done it....I didnt overly rate it (the Pike were always smaller!...And rubber lures for perch, always worked better for me...but as has been stated..it should be a matter of choice, and a matter or rules for the individual waters involved.

 

I dont go along with the fish dont feel pain argument, and think this is merely wishful thinking.

The degree of pain they feel however is open to question.

 

I cannot see being able to livebait continuing for much longer personaly though, and am convinced that it will be banned before long. It kind of has to be, with the current political and social climate in the UK.

 

It just isnt the sort of thing that will be tolerated any longer.

 

So, the livebaiters had better do it on the QT...Or start practising with deado's and lures!

[Brian Carragher]

I'm sorry to have to say this but Squiffy's response above is just the sort of response from anglers that cause rifts and division within our sport.

 

To my mind it is just the kind of garbage that only serves the anti angling establishment who wish to see the end of angling as a practice and not just those parts of it that Squiffy and others find hard to tolerate.

 

Sorry if you see this as some sort of personal attack as it is'nt aimed at yourself, it's just that I find it hard to comprehend that someone who pupports to be an angler can come out with so much anti angling drivel that only serves one purpose and thats the raising of issues that the likes of P*TA will use and highlight to ban angling in its entirety

 

The worlds leading acknowledged expert in fish neuro responses and fish brain/nerve receptors is Professor Bob Rose from the university of Wyoming and his research has bebunked the fish feel pain theory and established hard irrefutable scientific evidence that fish do not have the cerebal capacity to feel pain or measure pain in the same way that mammals do and has published journals to that effect suggesting that in livebaiting and general fishing terms that angling causes fish no pain

 

As for livebaiters doing it on the QT or being tolerated any longer I ask the question , tolerated by whom?

 

I livebait, it's a perfectly legal practice as endorsed by the EA our regulatory body and until they change the law then why should we have to engage in a perfectly legal practice just because one or two anglers don't like or understand it.

 

Most of the anti livebaiting discusions are either started or hijacked by those who quite simply don't have a clue as to what they are talking about, who've never done it either through moral or ethical reasons and then try and justify their thoughts by holding those practitioners of livebaiting as some form of anti christ in the hope of saving angling in general from regulation by politions or as some form of appeasement to the abolitionists.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the biggest threat for angling comes not from those who want to ban it but from our own ranks, those who wish to cause division and therfore discord amongst fellow anglers will eventually lead to its eventual banning because if we as fellow anglers can't agree on a subject or practice then how the hell do we expect the public at large to remain impassive. If theres something about angling practices that you don't like then instead of causing division, do the honourable thing and say nothing.

 

As for livebaiters being in decline or practicing some dark art in secret, well think again. It may well have fallen out of favour over a few years but I see more and more pike and predator anglers livebaiting now than ever I had done previously. Practices go in circles and from what I see livebaiting is gaining in popularity from people who feel comfortable in their choise when doing so and their results in fish caught justify theirs and mine faith in the method.

 

I was live baiting on Sunday fishing alongside someone else and between us we landed ten pike, all caught on livebaits, not a run nor a fish to the deads even though the deads were the same fish species as the lives and al done openly in view of anyone who cared to ask and without any embarrasment or guilt on my part.

 

When I livebait I use a bucket with an airator to keep them in and people take a peek when they hear the noise and I explain that I use the maggots to catch the fish which then become the bait for the big fish. All of this is done openly and with a frankness that some of the commentators in this thread would find hard to believe and not once has anyone commented adversely or made remarks like some of the anti livebaiters have on this and similar threads and discussions. I think the general public has a lot more savvy than a lot of the anti livebaiters have and I think they are a lot more tolerant towards the practice of live baiting than some of our supposed fellow anglers are

 

The biggest threat to angling comes from supposed fellow anglers so be aware of the statements that you make lest they are used against you in the form of the banning of something we all say we enjoy;angling

[Squiffy]

Brian.

 

With all due respect, your opening comments were codswallop!

 

Maybe I am being naive...but I cannot believe that you have flown out the blue corner, and launched an attack on my statements, when I am also in the Blue corner!

 

I cannot believe that you honestly stated 'by whom' in the context you did.

You sound like the foxhunters, just before the axe fell!...they couldnt see 'by whom' either!

 

I have nothing against livebaiting!!...I have done it myself!!!...I DONT RATE IT on a PERSONAL level!!!

 

I dont rate Football either, but that doesnt mean i want to ban it!!!

 

I was merely being realistic!...If you cant accept that, and throw statistics from Fish Scientists (which i have read before thanks) at me, fair enough.

 

But...If you ask the average person in the street if they think fishing is cruel...I would hazard a guess, that we would still have a fair majority who wouldnt much care either way "It's just a fish" they would say.

 

But let the antis with their adverts, their 'cuddly little fluffy guinea pigs' crap loose on an unsuspecting british public spouting about livebaiting ...and we are headed down the slippery slope!

Do you remember the cr*p over lead split shot?...the arguments that anglers put up against banning it?...who brought up the Swan deaths stuff then?....erm...the antis!...best bloody press they ever got!...made us look stupid!...and they were right...and the public saw they were!

 

I dont think fishing is cruel

I dont think livebaiting is cruel.

 

I didnt even care about foxhunting either way.

 

But..dont fool yourself into thinking there is safety in numbers..Or that the EA will 'bail you out' on the livebait issue m8!

 

I am interested in how you see 4million anglers all agreeing with one another?...that would be a turn up eh?...would make the forum a very dull place for a start!

 

We are probably not going to come to any agreements on this one, but I can live with that.

Edited September 4, 2006 by Squiffy

[mark barrett]

Brian.

 

With all due respect, your opening comments were codswallop!

 

Maybe I am being naive...but I cannot believe that you have flown out the blue corner, and launched an attack on my statements, when I am also in the Blue corner!

 

I cannot believe that you honestly stated 'by whom' in the context you did.

You sound like the foxhunters, just before the axe fell!...they couldnt see 'by whom' either!

 

I have nothing against livebaiting!!...I have done it myself!!!...I DONT RATE IT on a PERSONAL level!!!

 

I dont rate Football either, but that doesnt mean i want to ban it!!!

 

I was merely being realistic!...If you cant accept that, and throw statistics from Fish Scientists (which i have read before thanks) at me, fair enough.

 

But...If you ask the average person in the street if they think fishing is cruel...I would hazard a guess, that we would still have a fair majority who wouldnt much care either way "It's just a fish" they would say.

 

But let the antis with their adverts, their 'cuddly little fluffy guinea pigs' crap loose on an unsuspecting british public spouting about livebaiting ...and we are headed down the slippery slope!

Do you remember the cr*p over lead split shot?...the arguments that anglers put up against banning it?...who brought up the Swan deaths stuff then?....erm...the antis!...best bloody press they ever got!...made us look stupid!...and they were right...and the public saw they were!

 

I dont think fishing is cruel

I dont think livebaiting is cruel.

 

I didnt even care about foxhunting either way.

 

But..dont fool yourself into thinking there is safety in numbers..Or that the EA will 'bail you out' on the livebait issue m8!

 

I am interested in how you see 4million anglers all agreeing with one another?...that would be a turn up eh?...would make the forum a very dull place for a start!

 

We are probably not going to come to any agreements on this one, but I can live with that.

 

squiffy,

 

you say you dont rate livebaiting, well seriously mate you must have been doing it very very badly, because on most occassions it will outfish all the other methods.

there will be days, even waters where other methods will work better, but in general livebaiting is the best.

[Newt]

When was the last time you purposely hooked a fish through the eye?! Ridiculous.

About 2 weeks ago.

 

Sorry but with a large livebait that you wish to have remain alive for a long time (unless it gets eaten) through the eyes is probably the best possible hook location.

[Squiffy]

squiffy,

 

you say you dont rate livebaiting, well seriously mate you must have been doing it very very badly, because on most occassions it will outfish all the other methods.

there will be days, even waters where other methods will work better, but in general livebaiting is the best.

 

Hi Mark,

 

Fair enough, I will concede to you on that one! I probably didnt give it too much of a go, and it was knocked on the head (pardon the pun!) on the water I fished.

 

(much prefer Lure fishing anyhow)

 

Cheers

[andy_youngs]

Whilst I am concerned that the practice of livebaiting might be under threat from a misguided minority, I don't accept that its banning is imminent or inevitable. Anglers in this country contribute a hell of a lot of money to the Environment Agency's pot through the rod license, so the EA damn well ought to listen to anglers point of view when it comes to issues like this (especially if they want us to continue paying our way).

 

I've devoted a large proportion of life to 3 predatory sprecies : pike, perch and mahseer.

 

My preferred method for pike is deadbaiting with herrings / mackeral - sorts out the big ones. Unless of course I'm fishing with my 8 year old nephew, in which case it's got to be livebaiting every time. The sight of that big pike float bombing off still gets my heart pounding, the same as it did when I was 8 years old.

 

Preferred tactics for perch have got to be either bait-fishing with fry or worm, or fly-fishing around wier pools / sluices.

 

Mahseer ... I reckon the best way is to ledger a live 1lb snow trout in the fast flow of a big river and if it's still alive at the end of the fishing session then you eat it. Poor little buggers are doomed whatever happens.

 

Then of course, we could always move on to sea fishing for bass / cod. The injustices that take place whilst harvesting in the middle of the North Sea might make even me wince ...

[chesters1]

wearing my bailiffs hat

if the club rules say its permissable then who am i to stop people doing it .

i have done it in the past but not at the moment but may in the future.

whether its cruel or not is taken out of my hands by the club ,whether its needed is decided by the angler ,so long as rules are obeyed its ok with me whatever my personal feelings or practices are at the moment.

at the moment i like fooling the pike with deads usually pilchards ,you can sit down and watch livebaits doing the work or you can sit and wait for a static dead to work but i like getting involved and making a dead act like a almost dead ,it keeps out the cold and you get satisfaction knowing you maybe caught the fish by your actions rather than inactions.its just very slow spinning or plugging but without the arm ache

Edited September 4, 2006 by chesters1

[andy_youngs]

i like getting involved and making a dead act like a almost dead

Apologies for giving personal recommendations in public, but I would like to suggest either the draconvitch rig, or the spira jig, both available by mail order from www.sovereignsuperbaits.co.uk

I haven't got shares in them or anything, but I stumbled across their website a few months back and bought some excellent bits of kit there. Twitching a deadbait is a lost art in my opinion.

[Dick Dastardly]

Squiffy you general angling history is slightly flawed mate.It was anglers who decided volunteerily to stop using lead shot before any actual legislation was brought in.Seems now that not only do the general public,antis not remember this fact but anglers neither!

 

Im not going to even bother getting into a debate about the effectiveness of livebaiting as those who dont do it just wont believe us who do....more fool them if they have to kid themselves to justify their own personal preferences.A bit like the beach angler who cant be bothered to learn to cast...he just maintains that there is no need for it....

 

This attitude that people who lure fish/deadbait are holier than the live baiter gets up my nose too! I lure fish and I deadbait along with my livebaiting (and so do most sucsessfull pikers I know) It is not me who is limiting my options! Livebaiting is lazy? where does that come from? i tell you where from people who have never put the effort in it takes!

 

Brian raised a point that I have touched on in the past but never had the bottle to say out right.that is simply that the threat to livebaiting is far stronger from anti live baiting anglers than it is from even the antis! let alone the general public.

 

I will say it again.If you dont want to be bothered with all the effort it takes to live bait sucsessfully,if you cant stomach putting a live fish on the hooks for bait or whatever other reason you have then fine.I will respect your decision and certainly not try to get laws in place to make you do so!Just one thing though dont try and tell me its not necessary on some waters (as necessary as angling is any way as Anderoo pointed out),dont tell me its "overated" but above all dont try to force your personal preferences on me..........just like the anti angling brigade are trying to do to us all.

 

Ive said this before to but least the antis are consistant on the cruelty issue.Us anglers seem to think that its cruel to hook a fish for bait but not for sport! Some of us live baiting pikers are even worse ie it is cruel to use one species for bait but not another!

 

Dont want to stick hooks in fish? then dont bother going fishing,simple as that.Save the antis having to campaign against one extra and us realists having to constantly watch our backs!