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Folks,

 

Just havin an argument at work between the fishers and the golfers, the two questions I need an answer to are....

 

1) Velocity of a lead in flight ( say a tournament caster was casting a 3oz lead)

2) Whether an angler could knock a golf ball out of the air with a lead.

 

Replies needed quick, I'm loosing the battle

 

Stu.

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I found this table relating to possible velocity/distance with various golf clubs:

 

CLUB 132 mph 121 mph 100 mph

1-wood 318 yards 268 yards 183 yards

3-wood 290 yards 244 yards 166 yards

5-wood 269 yards 226 yards 154 yards

7-wood 234 yards 197 yards 134 yards

2-iron 274 yards 231 yards 157 yards

3-iron 248 yards 208 yards 142 yards

4-iron 220 yards 184 yards 126 yards

5-iron 191 yards 160 yards 109 yards

6-iron 152 yards 128 yards 87 yards

7-iron 117 yards 98 yards 67 yards

8-iron 86 yards 72 yards 49 yards

9-iron 60 yards 50 yards 34 yards

P. Wedge 35 yards 29 yards 20 yards

S. Wedge 15 yards 12 yards 8 yards

 

 

I can't find anything similar for tournament casting, but the pendulum cast can apparently send a lead 300yds plus:

 

http://www.fishermansheadquarters.com/fish...ndulumcast.html

 

So in theory at least, a lead could hit a golf ball in flight. You're surely not talking about accuracy though, are you? As in literally knocking an airborne golf ball out of the sky??? :blink:

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So in theory at least, a lead could hit a golf ball in flight. You're surely not talking about accuracy though, are you? As in literally knocking an airborne golf ball out of the sky??? :blink:

 

cheers Davy, Yup your right, I'm thinking it may be possible, possible stupidly, but I've purposley knocked a spod out of the air a couple of times....

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Back in the late 70's or early 80's, there was an American "angler" who got quite famous for his ability to hit clay pigeons with a lead launched with a baitcasting rod so if you detirmine that leads can fly faster than golfballs, then yes, its possible to hit the ball.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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I once watched Ivan Marks giving a display of pin-point accuracy while fishing for bream on the "bomb" during the dartford open many years ago. Fabulous though he was I doubt even he could have purposley taken out a golf ball! :rolleyes:

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I have no idea of the speed a golf ball can reach immediately after hitting it with the stick thingy but I`ve got a fair idea of the speed a lead can attain.

 

The following was posted elsewhere by me a few weeks ago and whilst seeming like a load of gobbildygook shows that a lead, in given circumstances can reach speeds well in excess of 150mph.

 

Ignore the calculations, Ive checked and re-checked them. The original post was in relation to some guy who got whacked in the keeker when a lead was pulled from a snag and the question was basically the same, i.e. what speed can a lead reach.

 

 

Quote "Dont have a lot of info on the kenetic energy set up when pulling from a snag, far too many variables. The speed of a lead weight when fired from a powerful rod such as a full, blown surf rod, is a different matter.

 

What takes place is one of those systems that cannot be understood unless you can see past your rod tip. Literally! … The answers really are beyond the rod and its components.

 

First you have to question the forces on the lead, both accelration and de-celaration WHAT CAUSES THE LEAD / LURE TO STOP FLYING?

 

It is NOT the RING DRAG (behavior of the line WITHIN the GUIDES, BETWEEN the REEL SPOOL & the ROD-TIP) that causes the line & lure to stop flying. It is the AIR RESISTANCE on the LEAD / LURE & LINE that is the CRITICAL DRAG.

 

WHAT CAUSES THE LURE / LEAD TO STOP FLYING?

 

(1) GRAVITY pulls the lead /lure & Line downward, regardless of the projectile’s velocity. The lure will drop toward earth at 32 feet/sec/sec no matter what. The lead / lure can be cast in an upward trajectory to increase the time aloft, which increases the time available to reach the target, which increases the casting distance. But it also increases the amount of line out, which increases the line-air drag. And the longer flight time also increases the deceleration of the lead / lure velocity as lead lure-air drag increases. Gravity is a constant.

 

(2) LEAD L URE-AIR RESISTANCE: Sometimes, as the lead / Lure velocity decreases, it is as if the lead /lure hits an INVISIBLE WALL – down it comes.

 

(3) LINE-AIR RESISTANCE: As more line is out past the rod tip, its mass & air drag increase, thus reducing the lure’s velocity. A helical shape to the line out past the rod tip means more length & mass for the amount of line out, and more surface area for air resistance. In order to MINIMIZE the Line-Air Resistance, a tamed line out seems to be very important. SMALLER Guide Ring IDs, rather than larger IDs, seem in order. That is quite the opposite of normal thinking but is a proven fact

 

(4) LINE-RING FRICTION: The Line-Ring Friction also drags the lure down. But the magnitude of this frictional loss is typically less than 2% of the kinetic energy of the Lure in flight. A friction loss the equivalent of 1/16th of an ounce is the typical value.

 

You can see for yourself by looking at the Graph in the Fuji Catalog Therefore, once your lead / lure is much over 1 / 4 oz, you can begin disregarding the guide drag, and focus on the air drag and the increasing amount of line-out. Here are some calculations. See RESULTS.

 

The formula for Kinetic Energy is K.E. = 1 / 2 * Mass * Velocity-Squared.

The formula for Gravitational Force is F = m * g,

The formula for Work is W = Force * Distance = m * g * distance.

Where g = gravitational acceleration, which is essentially 32 feet/sec/sec.

 

Using a lead / lure drop of only 3 feet, W = m * g * d

Work done opposing Gravity: W = mass * (32 ft/s/s) * (3 ft) = (mass) * 96 ft*ft/s/s.

 

When you take the ratio of KE / W, the mass term drops out, becoming irrelevant.

[(KE) / (W)] = [(1/2*mass*V*V) / (mass*g*distance)] = [(1/2*V*V) / (g*d)]

[(KE) / (W)] = [(KE) / (96 ft*ft/s/s)].

 

For a cast of 45 mph (Vo = 66 ft/sec; KE = 2178 ft*ft/s/s),

KE / W = 2178 / 96 = ~ 22.7

the kinetic energy is ~ 20 times the force of the normal friction

of the line against the guide rings. Guide Friction = ~ 5% of Lure Energy.

 

For a cast of 60 mph (Vo = 88 ft/sec; KE = 3872 ft*ft/s/s),

KE / W = 3872 / 96 = ~ 40.3

the kinetic energy is ~ 40 times the force of the normal friction

of the line against the guide rings. Guide Friction = 2.5% of Lure Energy.

 

RESULTS: Admittedly, the work done in opposing Gravity is not exactly the normal force on the guide ring, which is causing the friction. But it is a MAXIMUM value, because the ceramic ring’s coefficient of friction is very close to 0.100. Therefore, the Guide friction may actually be only 1/10th the value of 2–5% that I am proposing above.

 

THEREFORE, we can ignore the Guide Friction, and propose that whatever we can do to reduce the LURE-LINE-AIR DRAG will have the most beneficial effect on the casting distance. Using SMALLER guide rings in the TIP-Section to tame the line should help.

 

Sooooooooo ! basically if you stick all that together on a calculator, drag in the constants and variables it is possible that a lead hurtled out from say a long range, 14ft beach rod by a competent or indeed tournament caster, (asuming a tournament lead weight of around 5-6oz) then the velocity of that lead could in fact reach around 177 mph within the first 25ft after leaving the rod tip, reducing to 146 mph after 88yds and terminating at some 129mph after a cast which hits the water (or grass in tournament cases) after 266yds. This of course does not take into account the wind factor, (for or against) crap, wish I had never had that other Guiness.

 

Stan :(:(:):):blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:

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Of course you have to add in the fact that the weight slows right down towards the end of the cast, and is literally "falling to earth" for the last 20 yards or so.

 

From my years of chucking leads about (mostly 4 and 6ounce) then I can say that the first two thirds of the distance cast, is covered in about 25% of the total time taken (does that make sense to you? ) The lead then slows considerably, finally accelerating as it fall back to earth.

 

Sorry I can't remember how long a 200yard cast takes, maybe 6 seconds?

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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I have no idea of the speed a golf ball can reach immediately after hitting it with the stick thingy but I`ve got a fair idea of the speed a lead can attain.

 

The following was posted elsewhere by me a few weeks ago and whilst seeming like a load of gobbildygook shows that a lead, in given circumstances can reach speeds well in excess of 150mph.

 

Ignore the calculations, Ive checked and re-checked them. The original post was in relation to some guy who got whacked in the keeker when a lead was pulled from a snag and the question was basically the same, i.e. what speed can a lead reach.

Quote "Dont have a lot of info on the kenetic energy set up when pulling from a snag, far too many variables. The speed of a lead weight when fired from a powerful rod such as a full, blown surf rod, is a different matter.

 

What takes place is one of those systems that cannot be understood unless you can see past your rod tip. Literally! … The answers really are beyond the rod and its components.

 

First you have to question the forces on the lead, both accelration and de-celaration WHAT CAUSES THE LEAD / LURE TO STOP FLYING?

 

It is NOT the RING DRAG (behavior of the line WITHIN the GUIDES, BETWEEN the REEL SPOOL & the ROD-TIP) that causes the line & lure to stop flying. It is the AIR RESISTANCE on the LEAD / LURE & LINE that is the CRITICAL DRAG.

 

WHAT CAUSES THE LURE / LEAD TO STOP FLYING?

 

(1) GRAVITY pulls the lead /lure & Line downward, regardless of the projectile’s velocity. The lure will drop toward earth at 32 feet/sec/sec no matter what. The lead / lure can be cast in an upward trajectory to increase the time aloft, which increases the time available to reach the target, which increases the casting distance. But it also increases the amount of line out, which increases the line-air drag. And the longer flight time also increases the deceleration of the lead / lure velocity as lead lure-air drag increases. Gravity is a constant.

 

(2) LEAD L URE-AIR RESISTANCE: Sometimes, as the lead / Lure velocity decreases, it is as if the lead /lure hits an INVISIBLE WALL – down it comes.

 

(3) LINE-AIR RESISTANCE: As more line is out past the rod tip, its mass & air drag increase, thus reducing the lure’s velocity. A helical shape to the line out past the rod tip means more length & mass for the amount of line out, and more surface area for air resistance. In order to MINIMIZE the Line-Air Resistance, a tamed line out seems to be very important. SMALLER Guide Ring IDs, rather than larger IDs, seem in order. That is quite the opposite of normal thinking but is a proven fact

 

(4) LINE-RING FRICTION: The Line-Ring Friction also drags the lure down. But the magnitude of this frictional loss is typically less than 2% of the kinetic energy of the Lure in flight. A friction loss the equivalent of 1/16th of an ounce is the typical value.

 

You can see for yourself by looking at the Graph in the Fuji Catalog Therefore, once your lead / lure is much over 1 / 4 oz, you can begin disregarding the guide drag, and focus on the air drag and the increasing amount of line-out. Here are some calculations. See RESULTS.

 

The formula for Kinetic Energy is K.E. = 1 / 2 * Mass * Velocity-Squared.

The formula for Gravitational Force is F = m * g,

The formula for Work is W = Force * Distance = m * g * distance.

Where g = gravitational acceleration, which is essentially 32 feet/sec/sec.

 

Using a lead / lure drop of only 3 feet, W = m * g * d

Work done opposing Gravity: W = mass * (32 ft/s/s) * (3 ft) = (mass) * 96 ft*ft/s/s.

 

When you take the ratio of KE / W, the mass term drops out, becoming irrelevant.

[(KE) / (W)] = [(1/2*mass*V*V) / (mass*g*distance)] = [(1/2*V*V) / (g*d)]

[(KE) / (W)] = [(KE) / (96 ft*ft/s/s)].

 

For a cast of 45 mph (Vo = 66 ft/sec; KE = 2178 ft*ft/s/s),

KE / W = 2178 / 96 = ~ 22.7

the kinetic energy is ~ 20 times the force of the normal friction

of the line against the guide rings. Guide Friction = ~ 5% of Lure Energy.

 

For a cast of 60 mph (Vo = 88 ft/sec; KE = 3872 ft*ft/s/s),

KE / W = 3872 / 96 = ~ 40.3

the kinetic energy is ~ 40 times the force of the normal friction

of the line against the guide rings. Guide Friction = 2.5% of Lure Energy.

 

RESULTS: Admittedly, the work done in opposing Gravity is not exactly the normal force on the guide ring, which is causing the friction. But it is a MAXIMUM value, because the ceramic ring’s coefficient of friction is very close to 0.100. Therefore, the Guide friction may actually be only 1/10th the value of 2–5% that I am proposing above.

 

THEREFORE, we can ignore the Guide Friction, and propose that whatever we can do to reduce the LURE-LINE-AIR DRAG will have the most beneficial effect on the casting distance. Using SMALLER guide rings in the TIP-Section to tame the line should help.

 

Sooooooooo ! basically if you stick all that together on a calculator, drag in the constants and variables it is possible that a lead hurtled out from say a long range, 14ft beach rod by a competent or indeed tournament caster, (asuming a tournament lead weight of around 5-6oz) then the velocity of that lead could in fact reach around 177 mph within the first 25ft after leaving the rod tip, reducing to 146 mph after 88yds and terminating at some 129mph after a cast which hits the water (or grass in tournament cases) after 266yds. This of course does not take into account the wind factor, (for or against) crap, wish I had never had that other Guiness.

 

Stan :(:(:):):blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:

two variables have been missed out which hole you are on and is it a professional or a newbie golfer

Number me with Rage it,s a shame Number me in Haste its a shame

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