100lb carp!

[Dick Dastardly]

I'd be interested to know if those big French fish were stocked at a couple of pounds or so, because that would be as close as they ( or the majority of all other Carp stocked in Europe ) would ever get to being natural fish grown on in the wild.

 

Bring back the Wildie I say

 

Peter the carp in Brognon were stocked at a few pounds many decades ago.I think its quite safe to asume "Scar" was actually born in the water.

 

The only French carp fisheries I know of that have been stocked with big fish are the ones owned by/run by/for English people! French are far more interested in stocking table sized fish,the monsters just being ones that have grown naturally. Same in Italy.Also up untill the 90's the same in Germany.

[peter mccue]

Peter the carp in Brognon were stocked at a few pounds many decades ago.I think its quite safe to asume "Scar" was actually born in the water.

 

The only French carp fisheries I know of that have been stocked with big fish are the ones owned by/run by/for English people! French are far more interested in stocking table sized fish,the monsters just being ones that have grown naturally. Same in Italy.Also up untill the 90's the same in Germany.

 

Very interesting Budgie, if Scar is indeed the result of a natural spawning, then I for one definately need to re-evaluate my opinion of it. Irrespective of the selective breeding thats involved, thats one hell of a fish to go from egg to 80+!!

 

As a matter of interest, does anybody know how old it is?

[RobStubbs]

<snip>Irrespective of the selective breeding thats involved, thats one hell of a fish to go from egg to 80+!!

 

Don't want to sound flippant, but all fish must have gone from egg to x lb's. Sure many may have had a helping hand at the start but that's little more than shifting the balance from food for predators to surviving carp fry.

 

Rob.

[poledark]

I'm pretty sure Two Tone started life as a fingerling in Faversham lakes. And I know for a fact that the 40lbers in Sutton at Hone were naturally spawned in the lake they still live in.

 

And anyway, what is the problem with breeding some fish in a fish farm and then selling them on as 1 or two year olds? Perfectly normal practise surely?

 

 

Den

[peter mccue]

Rob,

 

Not quite as simplistic as that Rob, what you need to remember is that the ultimate weight of a Carp is primarily determined from parentage. No amount of food, extra space, lack of angling pressure etc will push a Carp beyond its genetic size limit. The point about a natural spawning is the parentage of the Carp is chance, not selection by man. The end result of this, is only the fittest will survive, not necessarily the biggest, though I might add it obviously helps!

 

Selection by man, would obviously want the fish that grows the quickest & largest, & seek to maintain that advantage with a constant supply of quality food & protection against nature itself. He would want to carry this forward to a point in time where he could release the fish into the 'wild' having secured for the fish the best possible start to it's life.

 

Natures objectives & mans objectives are two different things, so there is a world of difference between a natural spawning & a selective breeding program. Thats essentially why Scar has gone up in my estimation after the info provided by Budgie.

 

Thinking about it, if left to nature, we should theoretically see a dramatic reduction in size as the ultimate weight gene would gradually get bred back into it's proper & natural place.

 

Den,

 

Nothing wrong at all with stocking fish at a couple of pounds in weight, it is normal practise. Perhaps it was said in somebody else's post but I certainly didn't.

 

However now you've said it It fits modern fishing needs, but natural it ain't.

Edited December 26, 2006 by peter mccue

[Expat]

All Dogs come from Wolves, look at the size difference between a Wolf, Yorky and a Great Dane. Maybe the same can be done with Carp.

 

As for artifical carp, with the amount of boilies and pellets going into lakes these days, are there any "natural" carp left? Most large carp owe some of their weight to the boilie. Ain`t much difference who feeds the fish the angler or the fish farmer.

[RobStubbs]

Rob,

 

Not quite as simplistic as that Rob, what you need to remember is that the ultimate weight of a Carp is primarily determined from parentage. No amount of food, extra space, lack of angling pressure etc will push a Carp beyond its genetic size limit. The point about a natural spawning is the parentage of the Carp is chance, not selection by man. The end result of this, is only the fittest will survive, not necessarily the biggest, though I might add it obviously helps!

 

Den,

 

Nothing wrong at all with stocking fish at a couple of pounds in weight, it is normal practise. Perhaps it was said in somebody else's post but I certainly didn't.

 

However now you've said it It fits modern fishing needs, but natural it ain't.

 

Peter,

You're making things out to be more complicated than they are. What is nature and what isn't ? Whilst carp are selected for size, what do you think happens to the ones that don't grow big ? They are still sold on. What man does is alter the distribution of the stocks and perhaps uses the spawn from selective fish to produce new carp from. Nothing 'unnatural' in any of that, it's done with every type of farming and no-one says that ain't natural.

 

Rob.

[RobStubbs]

As for artifical carp, with the amount of boilies and pellets going into lakes these days, are there any "natural" carp left? Most large carp owe some of their weight to the boilie. Ain`t much difference who feeds the fish the angler or the fish farmer.

 

Read what you've written mate - doesn't make sense. Of course a carps diet is partly bait, but there's a hell of a lot of it that's naturals. Most lakes have plenty of weed, plenty of crustaceans and the carp eat all of them, and the blood worm and other insect life. Anyway who cares what they eat ? They are more 'natural' then you and I and most of the food we eat.

 

Rob.

[peter mccue]

Peter,

You're making things out to be more complicated than they are. What is nature and what isn't ? Whilst carp are selected for size, what do you think happens to the ones that don't grow big ? They are still sold on. What man does is alter the distribution of the stocks and perhaps uses the spawn from selective fish to produce new carp from. Nothing 'unnatural' in any of that, it's done with every type of farming and no-one says that ain't natural.

 

Rob.

 

I don't think I am Rob (but I would say that wouldn't I ) nature is nature, i.e. how it happens if we don't stick our oar in. But I do see where you're coming from, farming has altered our perception of what is natural & what isn't. I do have to say though, that new perception of natural hasn't exactly been good for the animal itself, even though there's been huge benefits to ourselves. I think that can be applied to a wide area of man's selective breeding of animals.

 

I'm not against it though Rob (I'm a meat eater through & through), I love Carp & realise this is the modern world, so I won't be NOT fishing for 20lbers out of protest but I really would like to fish for the Carp that exists outside man's influence, or to be more realistic as close as I can get!

[RobStubbs]

but I really would like to fish for the Carp that exists outside man's influence, or to be more realistic as close as I can get!

 

Well apart from those mythical old 'never fished' lakes the next best thing has to be the rivers.

 

Rob.