An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?

[Jaffa]

Cracking post Michel. and as I was the main culprit for "rubbishing" Johns article I owe you a decent reply. Its going to take me a few days though, as i've just started a new job today, so AN has to take a back seat.

 

Before I do get back my immediate thoughts are that that 1k tonnes looks ott for that boat, and its not enough to just guess that theres 10 % bycatch (to me, when I of think any fishery involving tightly shaoling species; by catch tends to be very low. ) Have you any evidence to back your ideas up?

 

Hopefully will be back soon. Take care all

[JB]

Good morning, Jaffa.

Up early this morning, have been reading through a few of the other threads. Judging by your postings, it seems you are a man who tries to see both sides of the story. I do have answers for your valid questions, but like you, I'm very busy at present and it will have to wait for a little while.

 

One thought, though - I know it's only conjecture, but if they hadn't taken millions of tons of sandeels out of the North Sea over the past 40 years, do you think the cod stocks would have been the same as they are today? I believe that taking feed fish has got to seriously deplete food fish.

I also believe that hitting the top end of the food chain hard is a problem that can be rectified, but hitting the lower end of the food chain is irresponsible and considerably more difficult to put right.

 

When I have time, I'll get back to you.

Good luck with the new job.

John Brennan

 

[Now that John has started to take an interest in the forum, and contribute himself, I have edited my original publicly displayed name to include his. I hadn't realised it would change the name on past postings. Hope I haven't confused any readers. Michele]

 

[ 04. October 2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: John and Michele ]

[Old Man of the Sea]

Very good posting, Michele and Mr B.

Michele (unusual spelling!), I'm planning a trip to your New Zealand soon - looking forward to it. From all I've heard, it's a great place. Why did you leave it to come here?

 

Mr B, good article, good post. I don't think a lot of the people on this forum are aware of what has happened in the central North Sea. As you well know, twentyfive years ago there would be in excess of 1000 boats fishing that area at any one time. Now the sandeel boats have stopped, you'd be pushed to find a handful of boats. It is understandable why people concentrate on the things that they see and are not aware of the greater problem that they don't see. You, like myself, are one of the few that have witnessed the sandeel slaughter.

 

One point of caution: Excellent website, but I'm not so sure it was a good idea to post the address on here. If the "flog 'em and hang 'em" section of the forum look at your photo gallery and see the amount and size of cod that you are catching, they'll want a quota imposed on you.

 

Over to you!

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Hi Michele,

 

I am neither a marine biologist or commercial fisherman and my only claim to fame such as it is, is having a love of fish and fishing since I was a little tacker.

 

Your post on sand eels and the lower end of the food chain has been an argument I have supported for many years.

 

However it does not only stop at sand eels, Bournemouth Bay an area I fished as a youth and into my early twenties has been totally destroyed by various commercial enterprises which have scoured the bottom of the bay eliminating not only crustaceans but the structures which used to house these creatures.

 

Just recently I have witnessed the cockle beds on Cefyn Sidan stripped clean within a six week period, for what, pure greed and easy money.

 

It will, I am told regenerate for next season but what happens to the food chain in the interim period?

 

I would suggest there is no scientific evidence to support that statement if these beds are raped repeatedly over the years.

 

It would not be the end of the earth if we did not form some form of an alliance but I am sure both sides would achieve a lot more a lot quicker in a joint exercise.

[Guest jay_con]

Old Man of the Sea:

 If the "flog 'em and hang 'em" section of the forum look at your photo gallery and see the amount and size of cod that you are catching, they'll want a quota imposed on you.

 

Over to you!

LOL. I dare not even mention catching a fish anymore here never mind post a picture. My catch this week is 2 codling both 1 pound in weight and some would still say thats too many.

[stavey]

LOL. I dare not even mention catching a fish anymore here never mind post a picture. My catch this week is 2 codling both 1 pound in weight and some would still say thats too many.

 

Thats 2 more than i have caught down here autumn in the last eight years, and i can easily see the dungeness light on a clear night to the east, where messers moncrief and co used to count there cod catches off there in stones not fish.............

[Guest jay_con]

mmmmmmm Bloody seals

[stavey]

mmmmmmm Bloody seals

 

Yeah right,

[JB]

stavey:

Michele, nice post with interesting information you and your partner john have put together thanks.

I think that even at such an early stage of this thread that the overall consensus is that the majority that have replied, do think it would be benificial to form some sort of an alliance.

 

I also think that there are many on this forum who are still cagey (for their own reasons?)to lay their cards on the table and make comment this way or that,

Maybe in time with more replys like michele and her partner's they will contribute?.

 

As an idea if we can keep this important thread going and enough people respond maybe it might be worth setting up a poll for or against?

Dear Stavey,

It's Michele here again. (I've changed my "displayed name" to reflect John's recent interest and participation on the forum.) First of all, I would like to thank you for the kind words - much appreciated!

 

Your poll idea sounds very interesting, Stavey. However, before it was set up, would you first need to do a poll to find out how many of the 7400-plus members of the forum belong to the 'Sea Fishing' sector; and of those members, how many are (or were) working in the commercial fishing industry, or are/were connected with that industry in some way?

 

Judging by the name of this forum - ANGLERS NET - I assume it was originally intended as a meeting place for anglers - and the commercial fishermen members have 'gate-crashed the party'. I'm sure some of the anglers who love their own forum would naturally resent this invasion. However, it seems that (to their credit), more often than not they have warmly welcomed the commercial lads aboard.

 

Reading through a few of the recent threads, I see that some contributors are actively engaged in commercial fishing, and a few others have worked as commercial fishermen at some stage in their lives. I assume there would also be a few with a foot in both camps, perhaps commercial fishing for most of the year but taking anglers in the summer months - as John did for many years, before becoming a full-time charter skipper in the mid-1990's. I therefore wonder how many of your forum members are connected in some way to the commercial fishing sector, and/or have first-hand knowledge and experience of it?

 

My point is this: To get a relatively accurate idea of how many of your fellow-contributors would support an alliance, I think one would first need to know the proportion of commercial to recreational fishermen amongst your membership. If there are only a handful of forum members who are connected to the commercial industry, they would not be a big enough representation to be a voice for their industry on this matter - either for or against. It may be that the commercial lads on this forum are more liberal and open-minded than the majority of their colleagues... but then again, perhaps they are actually even less so!

 

I understand that many of the forum’s anglers are, understandably, very ‘anti’ the commercial guys – yet they may still endorse the idea of an alliance with ‘the enemy’ for the greater good. However, they would probably be encouraged in this sentiment if they knew that the commercial boys also supported such an alliance.

 

Your thoughts, Stavey?

Kind regards,

Michele

P.S. Does anyone know if there is a forum like this one for commercial fishermen? If there is, it would be interesting to get the two factions together to debate this issue. If there isn't, perhaps your angling fraternity would be generous enough to invite other commercial fishermen in their areas to share this forum with them? Then we could all learn from, and about, each other; and a better understanding of our differing viewpoints might develop. It could be a step towards the ultimate aim of joining together to find ways to create a better future for all the fish in our seas.

[JB]

Old Man of the Sea:

Very good posting, Michele and Mr B.

Michele (unusual spelling!), I'm planning a trip to your New Zealand soon - looking forward to it. From all I've heard, it's a great place. Why did you leave it to come here?

</strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Old Man of the Sea, you asked why I left NZ to come here? Easy answer: For the love of a good, kind, decent man, of course! And, just in case you were wondering: No, I've never regretted it!

Michele

P.S. Think of how much ink I've saved the planet by not having to write an extra 'l' in my name!

 

<small>[ 04. October 2005, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: John and Michele ]</small>

Edited October 23, 2005 by John and Michele