What if?

[corydoras]

Sorry Budgie, didn't read that properly. I might fish for the pot, I might not. Is 'I don't know' a valid answer?

[Andy Macfarlane]

It is tantamount to calling a black person "nigger", or someone from around India "paki".

 

 

There is nothing wrong with the word Paki at all. Afghanis come from Afghanistan and Pakis come from Pakistan, yet Afghanis see nothing wrong in it, so what's the problem? The suffix -stān is Persian for "place of", derived from the Indo-Aryan equivalent, -sthāna, a cognate Sanskrit suffix with a similar meaning. In Indo-Aryan languages, sthāna is also used as a word to mean "place". To call someone from Pakistan a Paki, is no different to calling someone from Scotland a Scot. The only reason Pakis have come to see the term as abuse is because the term is often followed by a term of abuse, like bastard. If someone calls me a Scots bastard, it doesn't change the fact I'm a Scot. It's what I am and I'm proud of it. Pakis should be proud too.

Nigger is a bit of a grey area but again, it is a term that has basis in language, without any derogatory connotations. Earlier variants (such as neger or negar) derive from the Spanish/Portuguese word negro, meaning "black", and probably also the French nègre, which has also been used pejoratively (but also positively as in Négritude), derived from negro (the ordinary French word for "black" being noir). Both negro and noir (and therefore also nègre and nigger) ultimately come from nigrum, the accusative form of the Latin word niger (pronounced [niger], like "knee-ger" with the final r being trilled), simply meaning "black".

Chink however has many possible origins, some positive, some less so.

 

Just thought you should know that.

[corydoras]

There is nothing wrong with the word Paki at all...

Thanks for that Andy, seems as well as both being Scots anglers we have something else in common, that being at least a passing interest in etymology. Sorry Budgie getting again.

[great_badir]

Andy - I did know all that, I just didn't want to type it all out - guess you've saved me the job!

 

You're right of course, however whilst Aussie and Scot (and Brit) are acceptable abbreviations and not much else, Paki and, similarly, Jap are thought of as incredibly offensive. I once made the mistake of calling a 2nd generation Japanese guy I worked with a Jap, in my eyes like I would have referred to myself as a Brit, without realising that this had all sorts of bad juju attached to it from the second world war and he initially thought I was being racist and took it really badly. He was fine when I explained I genuinely had no idea, but there's a strong feeling about it among Japanese people still today.

 

The difference is that paki and nigger are slurs in and of themselves because of other things (as you said), whereas scot and aussie aren't. Certain states in America aside, I don't know of any black people who even likes nigger as a "taken back" word, and would instead rather it consigned to the language dustbin of history. Likewise with any pakistanis' feelings of the word paki, I imagine.

[Andy Macfarlane]

Thanks for that Andy, seems as well as both being Scots anglers we have something else in common, that being at least a passing interest in etymology. Sorry Budgie getting again.

 

Wow....you study insects too?....

Edited September 29, 2008 by Andy Macfarlane

[corydoras]

Andy - I did know all that, I just didn't want to type it all out - guess you've saved me the job!

 

You're right of course, however whilst Aussie and Scot (and Brit) are acceptable abbreviations...

Sorry but I'm going to get all pedantic here, but the term Scot is not an abbreviation for anything. I am a Scot and my first spoken language was the Lallans that ah learnt on ma grannies knee. Oh, and bye the way, don't assume that ALL Aussies like being called an 'Aussie'.

 

Wow....you study insects too?....

Er, no that would be entomology, or are you doing a Chesters and just trying to wind old Cory up?

[Bobj]

Sorry but I'm going to get all pedantic here, but the term Scot is not an abbreviation for anything. I am a Scot and my first spoken language was the Lallans that ah learnt on ma grannies knee. Oh, and bye the way, don't assume that ALL Aussies like being called an 'Aussie'.

 

That's true, Pom....er...Jock.... :P

[great_badir]

Sorry but I'm going to get all pedantic here, but the term Scot is not an abbreviation for anything. I am a Scot and my first spoken language was the Lallans that ah learnt on ma grannies knee. Oh, and bye the way, don't assume that ALL Aussies like being called an 'Aussie'.

 

Fair enough. But I'll assume the term "Scot" doesn't offend you or any other of your countrymen in the same way as the slurs we have discussed?

 

And it's a good job you told me that about aussie, lest I end up making a fool of myself. AGAIN!

 

Sooooo..........yeah............what were we talking about again? ................fish, or something?

[Andy Macfarlane]

Sorry Cory. I couldn't help it. That was just a wee joke.... I don't study insects at all but I do find words interesting. I sometimes listen to 'Word Of Mouth' On BBC Radio 4. I don't know if you know about this show but it's hosted by author, poet and comedian, Michael Rosen. It discusses the English language and how phrases and terms come to be, often with humorous results. It's on every Tuesday at 4pm, and repeated every Monday at 11pm.

[corydoras]

Fair enough. But I'll assume the term "Scot" doesn't offend you or any other of your countrymen in the same way as the slurs we have discussed?

 

And it's a good job you told me that about aussie, lest I end up making a fool of myself. AGAIN!

 

Sooooo..........yeah............what were we talking about again? ................fish, or something?

No the term far from offending me is exactly how I should be referred to, not a slur at all. I am a Scot. Goods produced in Scotland are Scottish, with the exeption of whisky which is scotch.