Blair .... Good Or Bad.

[chesters1]

thats because more money is squandered bolstering councils with a high proportion of labour sympathizers and most taken from those in the south with non labour sympathies.

[Ian FG]

John Prescott fails in his new career as a diplomat:

 

 

More public support for John:

 

 

What's wrong with these pictures of Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott?

 

 

a] The one on the left is Jabba the Hutt

b] The one on the right is Jabba the Hutt

c] They are both Jabba the Hutt

Edited May 11, 2007 by Ian FG

[chesters1]

are you insinuating that jabba is a useless mass of pumped up with their self importance waste of skin tosser deputy head of the government who does f all for his not inconsiderate wages

[Steve Walker]

One thing strikes me regarding people's experience of the NHS, like in many things, there definitely seems to be a North - South divide. I don't recognise the "Crimean" hospital wards described by southern posters.

 

For God's sake, don't move to Tameside though.

[nick]

Davy,

 

I have every sympathy for real poverty, especially young mothers abandonded by violent husbands who dodge their financial responsibilities....personal experience there.

 

But, take a drive to The Vale of Evesham and observe the hundreds of clean, decent, well-behaved Polish workers in the fields producing fruit and vegetables for our supermarkets. You would never catch the young, able-bodied, foul-mouthed, young chavs who hang about the town centre, with their bling, fags and cider doing that, not while there's benefits to be had.

 

Unfortunately Ian the benefits system itself perpetuates the problem. Ok there is now an incentive to work for some, particularly anyone with kids - and that will include many of the "chavs" you refer to. Tax credits works well, if you work you get more money and can really see what you get for working.

 

The problem comes with the housing benefit system, combined with the appalling lack of affordable housing, thus forcing many young people to either live with parents, or to rent privately.

 

So if you live with parents - who themselves probably subsit on means tested benefits - including housing benefit. "Chav" actually gets of his backside and earns some money - parents immediately loose some of their housing benefit. Chav has to give parents some money, he's worse off , no incentive to work.

 

Chav has found a house, housing benefit pays a large chunk of the rent for him. Gets a job, instantly loses lots of HB, no incentive.

 

How are people earning minimum wage currently I think £5.35 per hour (40 hour week = just over £11k per year) supposed to manage in a country were the average house price is £184,000, and even the average price for a terrace is £143,512

 

Until people are able to get a roof over their head in some affordable way by their own efforts then they are forced to be use the benefits system to their advantage. The 1980's produced the current system, and it is not one that any government looks set to change in the near future.

 

We hear many things about human rights in this country, but the most basic of human rights, after the right to life must surely be a right to a secure roof over your head? Until something is done to address this desperate need there will be "chavs" on the streets of Britain simply because they have no choice.

[DavyR]

Davy,

 

I have every sympathy for real poverty, especially young mothers abandonded by violent husbands who dodge their financial responsibilities....personal experience there.

 

But, take a drive to The Vale of Evesham and observe the hundreds of clean, decent, well-behaved Polish workers in the fields producing fruit and vegetables for our supermarkets. You would never catch the young, able-bodied, foul-mouthed, young chavs who hang about the town centre, with their bling, fags and cider doing that, not while there's benefits to be had.

 

Ian, I fully accept that there are a number of those who could be described as "workshy scroungers" around (I have one living next to me). I was thinking more of people I know who have worked hard all their lives in low-paid jobs and don't deserve the attitude shown them by *others* I know, who seem to believe that they deserve their low standard of living because they haven't become self-made businessmen.

 

The phenomenon of immigrants doing low-paid jobs that UK natives don't wish to do is not a new one, of course. That was what prompted the Government of the day to invite the West Indians over in the 1950s.

[chesters1]

and ofcourse the new labour force who do do the work force up the cost of housing because even cheap labour have to live somewhere ,500,000 extra people with work permits over the last few years need a room to live in so the buy to rent market also puts pressure on the housing stock and add to that the immigrant problem who have to be housed (cant have them on the streets like ethnic brits !remember their human rights) so buy to rent for immigrants awaiting decisions means hundreds of thousands of homes are bought purely to house these persons and their lucrative payments from councils.

so the only way to leave the family home for a huge proportion of our kids is to get pregnant or get "abused" (sometimes arranged by desperate parents) so the young get council housing of some sort this also explains why we have such a high proportion of unwed teenagers with sprogs compared to other countries, desperate conditions need desperate measures to escape from.

the benifits system has become more biased to people with children ,righly so but comes down far harder on those without ,even the small benifit of being married has gone so couples that dont marry can collect more tax perks if they lead seperate lives children or not if they play the system

Edited May 11, 2007 by chesters1

[Ian FG]

Nick - Good point, well presented.

 

NHS - Never had a problem with the NHS, every experience I have had with it has been excellent, if you break your leg they fix it for free, what's the problem? Try moving to Somalia and see how you get on with your broken leg there.

[chesters1]

wouldnt that be painfull!somalia is an awfull long way to limp

[nick]

Nick - Good point, well presented.

Thanks Ian, when you're caught up in the system it really focuses your mind