A ROD LICENCE WILL DO MASSIVE DAMAGE TO THE ANGLING

[Guest challenge]

What actually is a fact?

As far as I know, in this country a fact is something that would stand up (and therefore could be used) in a court of law.

A fact is based of the four senses. Touch see here and smell. Anything else is not admissible. therefore if we where to put big cod in the whiteness box and his first comment was that the majority of anglers do not want a rod license because in his opinion that’s what he thinks, his statement would be objected too on the grounds that it was only his opinion and not a fact.

Now if big cod could present the majority of anglers to appear in court and all state that they don’t want anything to do with rod licences then that would be admissible and his evidence would be accepted as a fact. I think?

Sorry about that but we seam to get the word FACT used quite a lot on this forum when in fact (excuse the pun) it means anything but.

Regards.

[clem]

What actually is a fact?

/quote]

 

Here are 3 relevant facts:

 

My 2 mates and I must have spent a grand in Whitby over the last couple of weeks not including car-parking but thats another story. This injection of cash is not restricted to just the holiday season either as fishing can be good when all the 2nd home breadfloaters have gone home.

 

If there was a licence and/or bag limits we would have put two fingers upto it and come anyway.

 

If there was a licence and /or bag limits that was strictly enforced and I mean security on the pier like passport control sort of thing then we would simply not bother and go down the allotment instead. Who is going to loose out? answer : The resort

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Contacting anglers is the biggest problem.

 

I meet and fish with a chap called Dave, a great lad but totally oblivious to what is going on, no computer and with nothing in the national news he is out on a limb.

 

He is very typical of a large number of RSAs and I fear their voices will never be heard.

 

Because of this they have to rely on those who represent RSAs and angling as a whole.

 

I visited the NUBA site and found the piece of garbage:

 

Sport England claim the number of participating anglers based on a recent survey in Britain to be 281,000. The number of rod licences sold in Britain each year is well over 1 million and a figure well over double this number is generally accepted to be an accurate reflection of participating coarse, game and sea anglers in Britain today. An educated guess would be approximately 2.5 million in England and 3.5 million in Britain.

 

How the hell they (Sport England) can call that a robust survey is the biggest heap of crap I have ever read.

 

And these idiots actually get paid for this drivel, poor old Dave is in for a bloody shock.

[stavey]

Contacting anglers is the biggest problem.

 

I meet and fish with a chap called Dave, a great lad but totally oblivious to what is going on, no computer and with nothing in the national news he is out on a limb.

 

He is very typical of a large number of RSAs and I fear their voices will never be heard.

 

Because of this they have to rely on those who represent RSAs and angling as a whole.

 

Hi ken

 

Getting the word out to sea anglers i found quite easy in my neck of the woods, getting those anglers to be arsed to do anything is another, there are plenty of dave's ken and i think its very easy to make excuses for them, when it comes down to it most of these guys are just plain lazy imo, so when they get slapped to pay for a sea license they have only themselves to blame and no one else as far as i am concerned, and they will pay it! all typically english dont you think? cheers..................

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Hi ken

 

Getting the word out to sea anglers i found quite easy in my neck of the woods, getting those anglers to be arsed to do anything is another, there are plenty of dave's ken and i think its very easy to make excuses for them, when it comes down to it most of these guys are just plain lazy imo, so when they get slapped to pay for a sea license they have only themselves to blame and no one else as far as i am concerned, and they will pay it! all typically english dont you think? cheers..................

 

I think the main reason they don't bother is they get slapped down so many times they don't think it is worth getting up to fight again.

 

Its like the general elections, there is nothing truly democratic about it, if you live in a party stronghold area and want to vote them out you can't, none of the major parties will bring in a proportional voting system because they would then have to listen to the smaller voices and they don't want to do that.

 

It's like that Sport England survey, the questions were designed to mean nothing.

 

The questionnaire was designed with an expert Advisory Group of leading academics. It was fully piloted and tested for reliability. A random sample of adults aged 16 plus in England was surveyed over a 12 month period. Approximately 1,000 surveys were completed daily. Surveys were carried out during weekday evenings and at weekends. There were a variety of questions asked, the relevant ones in terms of participation being as follows:

 

"I have already asked you about walking and cycling. I would now like to ask you about other types of sport and recreational physical activity you may have done. Please think about all the activities you did, in the last four weeks, whether for competition, training or receiving tuition, socially, casually or for health and fitness, but do not include any teaching, coaching or refereeing you may have done. "

 

So thinking about the last four weeks, that is since [^INSERT^], did you do any sporting or recreational physical activity?

 

What have you done?

Prompt: What else?

 

I wonder why walking came top no one is going to admit the furtherest they walk is from the house to the car

 

Cycling? "yes a few miles a day" typical reply for feel good factor.

 

Other sporting activities in the last four weeks asked in the middle of the closed season, or when the weather has been so bad you have not looked out the door for four weeks.

 

Sport England claim the number of participating anglers based on a recent survey in Britain to be 281,000. The number of rod licenses sold in Britain each year is well over 1 million and a figure well over double this number is generally accepted to be an accurate reflection of participating coarse, game and sea anglers in Britain today. An educated guess would be approximately 2.5 million in England and 3.5 million in Britain.

 

So a million anglers buy a license to sit indoors

 

The government (any government) relies on these sorts idiots for info and they are paid to come out with c**p like that from tax payers money.

 

This one has really got my back up and a number of bodies have had it straight from the hip.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Ken Davison South Wales

[barry luxton]

I think the main reason they don't bother is they get slapped down so many times they don't think it is worth getting up to fight again.

 

Its like the general elections, there is nothing truly democratic about it, if you live in a party stronghold area and want to vote them out you can't, none of the major parties will bring in a proportional voting system because they would then have to listen to the smaller voices and they don't want to do that.

 

It's like that Sport England survey, the questions were designed to mean nothing.

I wonder why walking came top no one is going to admit the furtherest they walk is from the house to the car

 

Cycling? "yes a few miles a day" typical reply for feel good factor.

 

Other sporting activities in the last four weeks asked in the middle of the closed season, or when the weather has been so bad you have not looked out the door for four weeks.

So a million anglers buy a license to sit indoors

 

The government (any government) relies on these sorts idiots for info and they are paid to come out with c**p like that from tax payers money.

 

This one has really got my back up and a number of bodies have had it straight from the hip.

 

 

The expession that springs to mind is: i only want to go fishing but the goverment won't let me. There must be thousands of daves out there and quite frankly i don't blame them. It's dead easy to go fishing but a nightmare uphill struggle to deal with the men in suits and what they are going to help us with. Found out yesterday care of Leon that even the fresh water licence set up is subsidised to quite an extent. What is the point i wonder.

 

Just done me responce to the marine bill etc. This time it was b...dy hard work for me and i wasn't really happy with what i sent, but needs must, they better not just use it for toilet paper.

Edited June 7, 2007 by barry luxton

[glennk]

Ok Lads here's is my response. It isn't perfect and please ignore the grammer and spelling mistakes.

 

Please take a few minutes to respond yourself. Even if you think licenceing would be great and you support the Marine Bill its better they know what you think than have them think you don't care what happens.

 

Please respond to this email address by tomorrow.

 

marinebillconsultation@defra.gsi.gov.uk

 

Hi There,

 

I write in response to the marine bill consultation. As a sea angler from the north east of England I would like to express my thoughts about some of the content of the marine bill which specifically relates to recreational Sea angling.

 

1. I see a sea angling licence as nothing other than a tax on people who fish in the sea. I personally dont care if you made the seas around are country the best recreational fishing grounds in the World (Given past history I doubt your ability) I would still begrudge paying to fish in the sea. The right of an English man to use rod, line and bait to catch fish from the sea predates the magna carte, how fitting is it that a labour government with numerous stealth taxes under its belt seeks to set another, this time at the expense of the nations anglers.

 

Not only would a sea angling licence take away something that has been the right of UK anglers since time began it could impact negatively on the angling business' across our region. With fewer fish in the sea than ever before, having to pay to fish in the sea could well reduce the number of people who want to participate in this sport. Holiday makers seeing a sign for a fishing trip from many of our local ports could be put off taking that trip by the extra expense incurred by having to purchase a license. Obviously with less people fishing the angling shops could also suffer too.

 

Be warned that there are roughly 2 million of us "Sea Anglers" and a large percentage are disgruntled and will to express this at the ballott box.

 

 

2. Within the Marine Bill and drafts of the RSA Strategy that I have read there is mention of "Bag Limits" for anglers. At first reading I felt this must be a joke. THere is no research evidence that angling has ever damaged fish stocks. The commercial fishing industry for years unpoliced by yourselves has brought the nations fish stocks to near extinction for some species and now you have the cheek to suggest anglers have been part of that equation. This is an insult to my intelligence. Further to this has any thought been given to the effect that a bag limit could have on the countries charter fishing fleet?

 

The amount of people wanting to go sea fishing could also be hit by the introduction of restrictions of catches. After paying: sometimes in excess of 40 pounds for a days angling from 1 of the north east's charter ports, 20 pounds upwards on bait and lures etc, £30 or more on fuel to get to the port, and the expenses incurred for accommodation and food for those who stay over for the night before trip, the thought of only being allowed to keep a couple of fish for the pan from their days catch could be enough to see a lot of boat anglers retire from the sport. The introduction of bag limits could also impact negatively on the numerous angling clubs which are to be found in almost every town on the coast between Hull and the borders of Scotland.

 

3. With regard to the marine bill as a whole and the manner in which DEFRA have conducted themselves with regard to the marine bill I am totally disgusted. Upon recieving a copy of the marine bill document "A sea change" my initail thoughts were - My god who is going to want to read that. Fortunatly with the help of friends on the internet I managed to pick out some bits relevant to my beloved hobby. I am horried that this document could impact on the nations angling community yet no real attempt was made by DEFRA to make this document accesible to the avearge person. Also I feel rather let down that except from a little information on your DEFRA website no real attempt was made to engage the countries 2 million sea anglers in this consultation. If I hadnt sought the information myself I would never have known about the marine bill. So what about the rest of the sea anglers who dont even know about your Bill ? Where was the poster in the angling shop ?? where was the flyer at the end of the pier ?? where was the article you placed in sea angler magazine to let us all know about your bill ?? There wasnt any was there. This is a total disgrace and you have let us down.

 

Regards - Glenn Kilpatrick

[barry luxton]

Please take a few minutes to respond yourself. Even if you think licenceing would be great and you support the Marine Bill its better they know what you think than have them think you don't care what happens.

 

Blimy Glennk what do you mean by taking a few minutes. I read the bill and read it and parts of it over and over, ive scribbled, ive thought, ive drafted, then today i wrote. I,m absoloutly exausted with it, p...........d off. Don't know if it will make any difference though.

 

I did like the way you responded, fair play to you.

Edited June 7, 2007 by barry luxton

[Guest challenge]

Glen.

Well said and much more directly to the point than my poor effort at accusing them of being misinformed and misguided by a bunch of would be green activists.

 

Again well said on most of what you put, I believe that the conservatives actually increased taxation (be it stealth or direct) by much more than this present day one have but lets stick to the point.

 

The government have actually excelled themselves this time on consultation glen, they don’t have to have consultation with every angler or every person that an unpopular change, or in this case charge will affect.

The fact that they went to the trouble of writing and publishing a marine bill is in there bureaucratic eyes efficient to what they had to do.

The fact that they did have consultation with angling bodies (representatives) and the fact that things where published on the internet, will tick all of there boxes in regards to consultation.

This government like all the rest wont go out of there way to encourage debate on unpopular change, what they will do is make it politically acceptable so that it can become law.

Unfortunately for the majority of us in this part of the world the RSA representation that the government did listen to and act upon because it met there criteria, wasn’t representative to our fears and concerns.

I hope that you get a reply glen as I believe that you’re honest and emotional response deserves one.

Regards.

[barry luxton]

Glen.

 

 

I believe that the conservatives actually increased taxation (be it stealth or direct) by much more than this present day one have but lets stick to the point.

 

The government have actually excelled themselves this time on consultation glen, they don’t have to have consultation with every angler or every person that an unpopular change, or in this case charge will affect.

The fact that they went to the trouble of writing and publishing a marine bill is in there bureaucratic eyes efficient to what they had to do.

The fact that they did have consultation with angling bodies (representatives) and the fact that things where published on the internet, will tick all of there boxes in regards to consultation.

This government like all the rest wont go out of there way to encourage debate on unpopular change, what they will do is make it politically acceptable so that it can become law.

 

 

Party political broadcast on behalf of the........................... yawn sorry Challenge couldn't resist.

Edited June 7, 2007 by barry luxton