irritating passenges

[snakey1]

First MAJOR point........in this country one is deemed innocent till proven guilty, only now it seems if you MIGHT be guilty of terrorism you risk being shot on sight.

The problem with that idea and suicide bombers is that they tend to prove themselves guilty by blowing up and killing lots of innocent people and theres not much point in trying to arrest the bits that are left afterwards. there have always been crimes which carry a possiblity of getting shot without warning if your caught doing them, this is just another.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

The problem with that idea and suicide bombers is that they tend to prove themselves guilty by blowing up and killing lots of innocent people and theres not much point in trying to arrest the bits that are left afterwards. there have always been crimes which carry a possiblity of getting shot without warning if your caught doing them, this is just another.

 

But this fellah wasn't caught doing anything was he?

 

The point here, is that by changing our lifestlye so that we live with far less freedoms is a complete and total victory for the terrorists. Ok, some people would die, but in the big scheme of things one has to say 'so what'? People die every weekend in this country by being glassed or stabbed on a night out yet we don't suddenly bring in draconian laws to protect the population...........in fact maybe they should, because you have a far greater risk of being stabbed by some drunk/drugged 'reveler' than you have of being blown up.

 

More people have been shot in London this year through gang violence than have died in terror attacks, yet what do they do, fire up a think tank or issue a white paper or something?

 

How about the tens of thousands of people in this country that are petrified to leave their houses after dark due to the violent gangs which terrorise (about time the word had some real meaning for a change) people and beat them up? This kind of urban terrorism poses us all a far greater threat than a few extremists yet for some reason as a country we seem happy to turn a blind eye and pretend it doesn't go on. Even the police are afraid to go into some inner city areas.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I do believe there are terrorists out there and they mean us harm, but firstly I don't believe the threat is as big as its made out to be, and secondly we have our secret services and the SAS etc who are all far better equipped and trained to deal with this kind of situation. I much rather they watched a suspect until 100% sure then took him out with a sniper shot rather than having gun toting coppers running around the city streets chasing shadows.

 

All IMHO of course.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Brumagem Phil

[chesters1]

i see the think tank in government think forcing up the price of grog in supermarkets will stop drunken behavior on the streets! errr if they are sitting at home supping their cheep beer their not falling out of bars at 3am and fighting

if they could find a way of taxing terrorism they would welcome it i assure you ,they dont care a fig they have a ring of steel around where they work and all those coppers you dont see round your streets protecting them

Edited November 21, 2007 by chesters1

[Andy_1984]

Isn't it funny that it is always the same people that come in on tune.Come in Spinners - I just wanted to prove to the others just how PC you are!!

hold yer horses there klein don't start on me i wasn't trying to spin anything, post on something controversial get a controversial reply but now that you mentioned it why did the flash movie need to have islamic text on it i wont go on anymore just winding you up

 

Edit:

 

also what do you mean ALL the time, its the first time ive ever spoken out on here so dont get me started

Edited November 21, 2007 by Andy_1984

[Darren T]

it is always going to be a difficult issue with different sides depending on your outlook. All i can say is that i am glad im not a Police Officer with a gun in these modern times. Even when they get called in to take on armed crims and then shoot one they get suspended while an inquiry is held to make sure they are not a gun toting loon.

 

With the country in the panicy state that it was something like that was always going to happen as soon as the officers were given licence to shoot.

 

was it wrong to give them the oppertunity to shoot and kill someone they thought was about to try and kill hundreds of innocent people? if he HAD been a bomber and it came out that they suspected but DIDNT shoot there would be outcry that they didnt stop it when they suspected.

 

as i said, all i can say for sure is that i am not in the position to have to make those decisions that DO have to be made in a split second that CAN have have an effect on hundreds on innocents.

[snakey1]

But this fellah wasn't caught doing anything was he?

 

this is true but as i previously pointed out if you wait until a suicide bomber has actually done something its a little late theres not much left to arrest

 

The point here, is that by changing our lifestlye so that we live with far less freedoms is a complete and total victory for the terrorists. Ok, some people would die, but in the big scheme of things one has to say 'so what'? People die every weekend in this country by being glassed or stabbed on a night out yet we don't suddenly bring in draconian laws to protect the population...........in fact maybe they should, because you have a far greater risk of being stabbed by some drunk/drugged 'reveler' than you have of being blown up.

 

More people have been shot in London this year through gang violence than have died in terror attacks, yet what do they do, fire up a think tank or issue a white paper or something?

 

How about the tens of thousands of people in this country that are petrified to leave their houses after dark due to the violent gangs which terrorise (about time the word had some real meaning for a change) people and beat them up? This kind of urban terrorism poses us all a far greater threat than a few extremists yet for some reason as a country we seem happy to turn a blind eye and pretend it doesn't go on. Even the police are afraid to go into some inner city areas.

 

Once again all of this is true but this was a police/intelligence operation against a suspected suicide bomber the police officers dealing with this incident are not normally the ones who would be dealing with pub violence i'm not saying go easy on criminals, the police shouldn't but thats a different matter again and nothing to do with the de menzes shooting.As for some people might die and saying so what, thats great up until its you or one of your relatives a point i believe you made to KB in an earlier post.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I do believe there are terrorists out there and they mean us harm, but firstly I don't believe the threat is as big as its made out to be, and secondly we have our secret services and the SAS etc who are all far better equipped and trained to deal with this kind of situation. I much rather they watched a suspect until 100% sure then took him out with a sniper shot rather than having gun toting coppers running around the city streets chasing shadows.

 

The threat is out there big or not as was proven by the 7/7 bombings the problem is watching a suspect until your 100% certain they're a suicide bomber is not always possible, neither is taking them out cleanly with a sniper shot (think of the situation of a bomber on a bus/plane/train or even a crowded pedestrianised area a clean shot is not always possible, you may say well shoot him as he leaves his house but suppose then that he doesn't have any device on him or in his house and that he's on his way to pick it up at say, the left luggage area of a main line train station or some were similar where you cannot target him with a rifle shot).

You already have gun toting coppers on the city streets thats what the ARVs and CO19 are.

 

As you say this isAll IMHO of course.

Edited November 21, 2007 by snakey1

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

I'm frankly amazed that soooo many here are actually making excuses for our police force, and actually saying what they did was in essence correct.

 

This bloke was simply on his way to work (the fact his visa had run out is a mere technicality) and had no idea that he was being watched. Nobody warned him, or shouted at him to stop, the first he knew anything was wrong was when a bullet blew his brain to bits. That could have been ANYONE............I wonder if peoples attitudes would be different if this bloke had been say the director of a big UK PLC, or a pregnant mother? Its my opinion that the fact he wasn't English and the fact his visa had expired in some way cheapen his life.

 

I lived and worked through the B'ham bombings and life simply went on. I recall how then, we stood firm and refused to allow the terrorists to change our way of life yet now, we seem all too happy to have our civil liberties eroded.

 

We didn't allow our trained army to have a shoot to kill policy in Ireland, so why do we need one now all of a sudden?

 

Life is not a bed of roses, and I appreciate there are risks to me out there, but I don't expect them to come from those who supposedly are competent enough to protect me.

[peterpikefisher]

its amazing what a little joke ends up as init

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

its amazing what a little joke ends up as init

 

Its a good discussion though don't you think?

 

Weird though that terrorism is all of a sudden such a taboo subject to joke about.........we laugh about just about any disaster that comes along NASA jokes, herald of free enterprise jokes, McCann jokes, but mention the T word, and all of a sudden everyone goes all serious!

[snakey1]

Its a good discussion though don't you think?

 

Weird though that terrorism is all of a sudden such a taboo subject to joke about.........we laugh about just about any disaster that comes along NASA jokes, herald of free enterprise jokes, McCann jokes, but mention the T word, and all of a sudden everyone goes all serious!

I appreciated the joke but only started posting when the subject wandered off into a different vein.