RSA Strategy Consultation Launched

[H.A.]

Makes me larf .... the old 'fifth columnist' talk about "If half the 1 million or so RSAs kept 4 bass a year, it would equal X tonnes per year."

 

I walked Admiralty pier in the height of the season for five consecutive days one year not too long ago.

 

I saw three bass caught by several hundred anglers and two bass were returned via dropnets!

 

You will never be able to negotiate jointly with people (over fish stocks) who catch dozens/hundreds of boxes of fish to 'break even'!

 

Greed does irrational things to people!

 

[Guest challenge]

If you added together every fish caught by every angler in the country over a whole year it probably wouldn't amount to what is caught by a single successful tow of a pair trawl. (Yes I can produce photos if you really need to see them again.) So how many men work on those two boats, twelve? Twelve men seem to have some god-given right to more fish in half a day than a million of us have over a whole year?

Please explain why.

 

The owners having million pound bank loans to pay off doesn't seem a good reason to me. How would the general public react if I spent a million pounds on a machine that caught every songbird that flies in the sky and justified it on the grounds that "I'm not doing anything illegal, I've got bills to pay."

but wouldn’t somebody come along and say that there are no song birds left in the sky (even though you can here them and see them for miles) therefore it is illegal to go and catch them, therefore you have to take your million pound machine that you had made especially for catching songbirds and see if you can catch some crows.

[Cranfield]

Hi Cranfield

 

Did Leon tell them how many of the millions of anglers he represents and how many tons of fish anglers catch and keep when commercials have to throw them back

 

Anglers fish unrestricted and uncontrolled seems to me that anglers are going to get stuffed with bag limits because angler reps which represent less than 1% of all anglers have their own agenda

 

steve

 

I have no idea what Leon "told them", I wasn't there, I read what you read.

[Jaffa]

Wow thats an insight, 'Commercial fishermen in claims that angling reps want a rod licence and bag limits shocker'.

 

If your going to stir the sheet and retain any credibility, best that you have no track record of proposing such restrictions yourself.

 

Like many fishermen in both sectors, your usual round of verbal diahorrea, does nothing to reconcile the fact that yours and our reps will need to sit down TOGETHER to find a way to defend ourselves against the greens and the government Tax collectors.

 

So can I suggest that you go and play with your oysters, and leave issues such as these to those who know what they are talking about and indeed have some experience of the matters in hand. Childish playground banter and petty points scoring is what I'd expect from someone of your obvious low intelligence, and I and the majority of the intelligent angling population prefer to make our own conclusions based on fact, not the ramblings of a biased opponent of sea angling.

 

He was just expressing his opinion; that still allowed ?

 

I agree that a common enemy is the Greens and the way government will be happily influenced to raise money on the back of green arguments, but like FF's copy and paste nonsense , i doubt many will change their opinion when you assume others are too stupid to understand this stuff.

 

Its hard to see who the commercial reps are supposed to sit down and talk with. SACN and the rest do not represent many RSA but the commercial organisations do represent most of the commercials. Who would the commercials actually be talking with? A genuine grass roots angling body with widespread support whose views can be taken as a fair reflection, or a few busybodies , some of whom might instinctively have deep ties to the politics and ideas of the green movement?

 

Just MO

 

BTW ever looked at OATA (Ornamental fish industry body) and you might be surprised at how much it achieves with so little. It of course does have the financial backing of many, big and small, in the trade. Perhapsd partly because it does not do the moral rights lectures

[JRT]

If you added together every fish caught by every angler in the country over a whole year it probably wouldn't amount to what is caught by a single successful tow of a pair trawl. (Yes I can produce photos if you really need to see them again.) So how many men work on those two boats, twelve? Twelve men seem to have some god-given right to more fish in half a day than a million of us have over a whole year?

Please explain why.

 

The owners having million pound bank loans to pay off doesn't seem a good reason to me. How would the general public react if I spent a million pounds on a machine that caught every songbird that flies in the sky and justified it on the grounds that "I'm not doing anything illegal, I've got bills to pay."

 

Outstanding post!

[Jaffa]

Outstanding post!

 

Except that the volumes of fish taken by boats fishing for pelagic species like herring/mackerel are of a different scale to the whitefish we usually think about, and the fact is that most of the pelagic stocks are in good health while its the whitefish that are the worry.

 

If Colins reference is to to a boat with a 12 man crew then that sounds unlikely to be any whitefish boat.

[ColinW]

If Colins reference is to to a boat with a 12 man crew then that sounds unlikely to be any whitefish boat.

 

I was thinking of two boats. I don't know how big the crew on each would actually be, I guessed it would have to be at least four and that more than six would get in each other's way.

 

Some of these boats are not catching mackerel

http://www.buddingrose.co.uk/

[Ian Burrett]

Its hard to see who the commercial reps are supposed to sit down and talk with. SACN and the rest do not represent many RSA but the commercial organisations do represent most of the commercials. Who would the commercials actually be talking with? A

 

You make the commercials sound like one big happy family. The truth is different fractions of the commercial industry fall out in lumps, just like different fractions of RSA

 

The main difference is the commercials are better organised and can afford to employ people like Bertie Armstrong and members of the legal profession to fight their cause.

[Guest challenge]

You make the commercials sound like one big happy family. The truth is different fractions of the commercial industry fall out in lumps, just like different fractions of RSA

 

The main difference is the commercials are better organised and can afford to employ people like Bertie Armstrong and members of the legal profession to fight their cause.

There are a lot of people out there fighting people’s causes and getting ample funds to do it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7127182.stm

Regards.

[Jaffa]

'Too stupid'? A projection maybe? (*)

Unlike you I don't assume 'others' to be too stupid to understand if they get the information needed to form an opinion. However, you seem not to be able to understand 'this stuff'. You wont/cannot explain what parts of the Auditors' report is sheer nonsense. Pitty. Your answers might been helpful to those you take for fools. The Economist don't find their readers too stupid but brings them a long well written article about 'the stuff' (the analysis is good but I don't agree with their conclusion that 'the force of the market' could fix all problems).

 

* Projection: 'The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.'

 

A fishy tale

Dec 13th 2007

From The Economist print edition

http://www.economist.com:80/world/europe/d...ory_id=10286025

 

IN RATIONAL systems of government, officials do not enjoy hearing that one of their policies is a shambles. Yet that is what happened when the Court of Auditors recently declared that the European Union's common fisheries policy (CFP), under which the European Commission sets maximum allowable catches, does not work. The auditors found that the actual level of catches is "unknown", thanks to gaps, errors and "mis-statements" (ie, fibs) in data sent to Brussels by national governments. Most rule-breakers are not caught; those caught are seldom punished; and the few who are punished face trifling fines. Schemes to reduce overcapacity in fishing fleets have been subverted. This has severe effects. A survey of the north-east Atlantic found 81% of fish stocks to be dangerously over-exploited.

 

So why does the commission welcome this damning report? Because enforcing the CFP is largely a job for national governments. (...)

 

Thank you for your opinion on my level of intelligence. It seems to be a reoccurring theme that anyone that disagrees with the official RSA line are branded as either stupid, or in the pockets of the commercials.

 

The report you posted was interesting but also EU-wide so hardly reasonable to drag it into an essentially UK conversation imho Our fleet has shrunk dramatically, black fish landings etc have been stamped down on. Last i heard Spain did not even know how many fishing boats it has, but if that is or is not actually i big deal i don't know; for each country the problems /answers will be different.

 

It seems to me that you wish to paint all fishermen as bad and EU officials as holding the answers - which is a total joke, before you look at a single line of that report.

 

If you do want to break the report down and discuss each bit then whose going to complain about that?

 

Chris