RSA Strategy Consultation Launched

[stavey]

And if you got the so called 'GM' what would actually change other than all these fleets of nets you speak of would be at 1 mile? I suppose then it would be a 2,3,4,+++ mile you would want?

If you got the 'GM' IF....Do you not think the commercials will want something in return?....Think you will find you WILL end up WORSE off...

 

Personally ron, i think the commercials should get "jack" they have had everything uptil now there own way, i have never bought the idea that just eu legislation has brought the colapse of there industry about, over fishing and the lack of fish might have something to do with it dont you think?

 

As for being worse off nah i dont think so, it cant get any worse mate and who knows? have a mile exclusion zone put in some artificial reefs here and there and maybe the fish will breed and stay put?

[barry luxton]

The way forward is very easy Barry. If this is coming to us then you let them force it on us. There is no middle ground Barry, there is nothing would make a licence or bag limits stand up, it is a tax and its an erosion of our rights, ancient rights, by an over controlling government who seek to tax and regulate everything that was once free. What is sad is they sucked so may of you into their way of thinking along the line. What happened to that British spirit - fight for what is right ? not roll over and die. If SACN come to me and say well you now have to pay a licence but we got you some new toilets to **** in, do you think I'm gonna turn around and say "why thankyou for taking the time to secure this for me". Nah that aint gonna happen Barry. SACN are unelected and unrepresentative I cannot figure out how on this planet they have managed to get onto the "DEFRA’s Marine Science Advisory Group" this group SACN are tiny and do not represent anyone other than themselves.

 

This might sound negative, I dont want to sound rude but to be honest I'm not too fussed about your perception of me as an individual, you live the other end of the country and have never met me, what I care about is my fishing and my childrens fishing for the future, we dont want anyone representing us, we dont want someone giving away what we hold so dear.

 

Just out of interest what is it you feel I should be positive about from this strategy ? The toilets ? or the slipway ?

 

 

Ha Ha Ha, toilets or slipway, neither off the backs of the rsa as those two items should fall equally on the shoulders of the general public, boat owners and rsa only on agreement. That one don't want working out.

 

My perception of you, thanks, i fully understand where you are coming from, just like the bass issue not your problem, so what.

 

You appear to have a continuall downer on the sacn, what about including Bass and the Nfsa in your argument as they are of the same opinion, like the chicken and the egg, what came first, i don't know who aproached who in the outset, but as far as i'm concerned sacn ain't the real enemy in this. To me it is the imcompetant guys who are trying to have a slice of the action on the backs of the rsa. No one has sucked me anywhere Glennk i can assure you of that.

 

Licence, if we are to pay for one, so should every one else, pro-rata. Bag limits, again the incompetance of the men in suits spring to mind, they really need to know exactly what the take is of the rsa if they bring on that one in the name of conservation. As for this lot of incompetants who are in power at the mo, did you vote for them?

[H.A.]

Read the consultation document???

 

I doubt it .... but does it matter?

 

This is what Defra does with our money (yes, don't forget we fund them anyway!).

11/12/2007 11:01

Department for Environment, Food And Rural Affairs (National)

(DEFRA) UK announces new study on climate change adaptation at Bali

 

Research to look at costs of adapting to climate change

 

The UK and Netherlands, together with the World Bank, today announced funding of up to £3 million (Euro 4 million) for a new research study that will support developing countries to prepare for climate change.

 

Can you see them delivering on 'more and bigger fish'??????

 

[glennk]

Hi Barry, Like I say I've no real concern about your perception of my depressed attitude towards this, infact you may be right, I am depressed about this, the document is depressing to read and potentially damaging for Angling as I know it now, but I must correct you on a couple of things.

 

i fully understand where you are coming from, just like the bass issue not your problem, so what.

 

The RSA strategy is my problem just as it is to all those anglers who replied on the WSF, (like you say your not a member there but it is the largest angling site on the internet so highly representative of thoughts from people who use this form of communication).

 

Secondly I initially cared about the Bass plan and would have backed it had it not been so short sighted to have made plans to the detriment of anglers who target other species.

 

Finally your right I am down on the SACN - Why ?

 

I've made it quite clear this is an empire building organisation. Its leader is unelected and the group represents fewer than a 1000 anglers yet its leader is going into parliament and giving the perception that he represents "1 million or so people". This is not right, its false information, infact its a lie being told to the government. If it was something as simple as a differing of opinions (like me and you for example) then I wouldn't be going to such extremes for my views to be heared.

Edited December 11, 2007 by glennk

[barry luxton]

Secondly I initially cared about the Bass plan and would have backed it had it not been so short sighted to have made plans to the detriment of anglers who target other species.

 

Please enlighten me on this one as i have not even considered that the bass mls could have had an impact on other rsa, have i missed something?

 

Who do you think should be talking to defra then, or do you think no one in the hope they will go away.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f339/mev...barryscod-s.jpg

 

Photo of me not catching bass, sorry the photo is a bit small.

Edited December 12, 2007 by barry luxton

[ColinW]

If a group of anglers take the trouble to get themselves sufficiently organised to be listened to in parliament then I say good luck to them. They may well not be representative of the views of the vast majority (mainly since the vast majority have no view beyond the last thing they read in the Angling comics) but that isn't their concern. I've seen no evidence to suggest that the SACN make claims to represent anyone outside that organisation. I'm not sure the same can be said about the self-aggrandizing NFSA.

We should also bear in mind that while not everyone is a southern bass fisherman, then similarly not everyone fishes of Whitby charter boats, so neither of those group's slanted points of view can really claim to be representative of the majority.

[stavey]

If a group of anglers take the trouble to get themselves sufficiently organised to be listened to in parliament then I say good luck to them. They may well not be representative of the views of the vast majority (mainly since the vast majority have no view beyond the last thing they read in the Angling comics) but that isn't their concern. I've seen no evidence to suggest that the SACN make claims to represent anyone outside that organisation. I'm not sure the same can be said about the self-aggrandizing NFSA.

We should also bear in mind that while not everyone is a southern bass fisherman, then similarly not everyone fishes of Whitby charter boats, so neither of those group's slanted points of view can really claim to be representative of the majority.

 

Hi colin, good post mate, i am a southern bass angler but not only bass, but mullet/cod/yting/pout/dabs/flounder etc etc, but il tell you what! it did not stop me replying to consultations and petitions for other anglers needs in other areas on their species, but by the way people are starting to point fingers and accuse all southern bass anglers of only thinking of bass and f the rest, i am beggining to think why i should have bothered, i thought sea anglers wanted the same thing more and bigger fish, but now i realy dont know.

[Guest challenge]

If a group of anglers take the trouble to get themselves sufficiently organised to be listened to in parliament then I say good luck to them. They may well not be representative of the views of the vast majority (mainly since the vast majority have no view beyond the last thing they read in the Angling comics) but that isn't their concern. I've seen no evidence to suggest that the SACN make claims to represent anyone outside that organisation. I'm not sure the same can be said about the self-aggrandizing NFSA.

We should also bear in mind that while not everyone is a southern bass fisherman, then similarly not everyone fishes of Whitby charter boats, so neither of those group's slanted points of view can really claim to be representative of the majority.

Excellent post collin.

I don’t agree with a lot of what Leon (bless him) says and stands for. But I must take my hat off to him.

I don’t think for one moment that he is running around the houses of parliament masquerading as the voice of the British rsa. I do know that he stands up for what he believes in and works dam hard to get people to listen to what he has to say.

Apparently we live in a democracy and we all have the same opportunity to practice our rights the same as Leon has.

We talk on forums about representation and misrepresentation? In fact what percentages of rsa ever use forums? Or run them come to think that?

You would be surprised at the amount of people who reed forums like this one, who are not rsa. Maybe a lot of damage (if that what you want to call it) or good (in the case of the pro licence lobby) has been caused by the relentless attacks on commercial practices that have been done on here and other forums and read by those who have influence.

I personally don’t think that rod licences or bag limits will do rsa much if any good at all. But I also don’t believe that slating the commercial industry at every given opportunity will do any good to the average rsa either.

I believe that a few of the anti commercial brigade now realise this, so they turn there attention and blame towards others. Unfortunately for the anti commercial brigade and the thousands of rsa they don’t represent the damage has been done.

Regards.

[Jaffa]

I am sure there will be a lot for anglers to moan about in comming years no matter the outcome of this consultation due to these shortcomings. They wont be fixed easily not the least due to counter-presure from you know who.

Press release http://eca.europa.eu/portal/pls/portal/docs/1/585521.PDFReport (71 pages) http://eca.europa.eu/portal/pls/portal/docs/1/581539.PDF

 

EUROPEAN COURT OF AUDITORS

PRESS RELEASE

Brussels, 4 December 2007 ECA/07/35

The European Court of Auditors' Special Report No 7/2007 on the control, inspection and sanction systems relating to the rules on conservation of Community fisheries resources

WHAT IS CAUSING THE FAILURE IN THE MANAGEMENT OF COMMUNITY FISHERIES RESOURCES?

Unreliable catch data, inspections of limited effectiveness, systems for following up infringements and imposing sanctions that are often inappropriate, and all of this in a context of overcapacity which jeopardises compliance with the rules: these are the main findings of the European Court of Auditors in its latest Special Report on fishing in Community waters. The multiple shortcomings that it identifies call into question whether the various measures for fishery resources management, and the total allowable catch (TAC) and quota system in particular, are operating effectively. In conclusion, the Court of Auditors makes numerous recommendations that the political authorities must implement if they want the common fisheries policy (CFP) to achieve its objective of sustainable exploitation of fisheries resources.

 

Lower catches and overexploitation of fishery resources have been observed for many years. They are also indicators of the failure of the CFP, the objective of which is the sustainable exploitation of living aquatic resources.

 

The European Union's main resource management measure is limiting catch volumes by setting annual quotas, i.e. maximum quantities that each national fishing fleet is entitled to take from Community waters. Other measures involve limiting activity at sea, the specifications of fishing gear or the minimum size of fish.

The European Court of Auditors' audit focused on systems for collecting and monitoring catch data, on inspection arrangements, and systems for following up infringements and imposing sanctions. In each of these areas, significant shortcomings were found.

 

Firstly, the Court of Auditors notes that quota monitoring and quota uptake data are incomplete and unreliable. In the six Member States visited, the procedures in force guarantee neither that the data collected are complete, nor that inconsistencies are detected when they are validated. In two of them, it is not even possible to reconcile the annual totals with the individual declarations made by fishing industry operators. For its part, the Commission is not in a position to identify satisfactorily errors and misstatements in the data forwarded by the Member States. In particular, it is unable to explain the differences between the figures that its Directorate-General for fisheries receives and those received by Eurostat.

 

As regards the inspections, for which the Member States are responsible, the Court found that the systems in place do not provide assurance that infringements are effectively prevented and detected. The absence of general control standards is an impediment to adequate control pressure and optimisation of inspection activities. Moreover it limits the Commission’s ability to give an opinion as to the overall effectiveness of national systems. Furthermore, the Community Fisheries Control Agency, contrary to what its name suggests, has no powers of its own as regards fisheries control, since its role is limited to organising operational coordination of national inspection activities.

 

As regards systems for following up infringements and imposing sanctions, the Court of Auditors considers that they are often inappropriate. At national level, the ways of dealing with infringements do not support the assertion that every infringement is followed up and still less that each one attracts a penalty; even when penalties are imposed their deterrent effect is, on the whole, limited. As for the failings of Member States, the only legal procedure which led to a financial penalty was an action before the Court of Justice which ended 21 years after the first infringements were recorded.

 

The Court of Auditors also emphasises that the overcapacity of the Community fleet is an incitement to non-compliance with catch limitations; it also affects the quality of the data submitted. The Community's current approach, based essentially on reducing the fishing effort, is unlikely to resolve the problem of overcapacity.

 

In conclusion, the report says that, if the political authorities want the CFP to achieve its objective of sustainable exploitation of fisheries resources, the present control, inspection and sanction systems must be strengthened considerably.To this end, the Court of Auditors makes numerous recommendations in the report, which is available on its internet website: www.eca.europa.eu.

European Court of Auditors Communication and reports – Press Office

12, rue Alcide De Gasperi - L - 1615 Luxembourg

tel.: (+352) 4398 45224 – fax: (+352) 4398 46224 – mobile phone (+352) 621 55 22 24 e-mail: press@eca.europa.eu

 

Totally beyond me why you continue to put this nonsense up as if its some kind of arguement . Its so far from the reality that i've lived that its totally alien. Perhaps others understand it better and can point out my sheer stupidity. What utopian planet are these guys from and think they are living in?

 

And you reckon that copying and pasting this stuff into an angling forum will make a ton of anglers get "onside". Lmao

Edited December 11, 2007 by Jaffa

[H.A.]

And you reckon that copying and pasting this stuff into an angling forum will make a ton of anglers get "onside". Lmao

 

I think you are being very presumptive as to FFs intentions.

 

Quite a few of us put pieces of newsclippings/press releases for folks to read.

 

Perhaps you are saying that because it's "totally beyond me why you continue to put this nonsense up as if its some kind of arguement", it should not be posted.

A kind of pre-censoring by NFFO sympathisers, eh?

 

I think as long as this remains an angling site, we should be able to post stuff whether you like it or not.