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Sorry Tinca, I'm sure those diagrams are useful but my brain just can't cope with anything like that :rolleyes: I expect it's a very simple illustration, but when it comes to maths/physics I'm a very simple person :D

 

Rich, I did end doing that last season and it does work pretty well, but even with a lot of weight added they still swing in the wind and you get the odd beep. I've got it into my head now that I NEED swingers, it must be the annual January crap fishing frustrations!

 

EDIT: Budgie, how long a drop do you reckon is necessary?

Edited by Anderoo

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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Cheers Budgie, difficult decision but life eventually got in the way too much and sadly it became unavoidable.   Such a good topic this one, we could do with a few more...!   My 'bobbin' idea as I

A free running monkey climber would work fine, some amazing and sometimes outrageous indicators were built and used (with some great success) thanks to this topic, all different but all trying to solv

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I don't agree with either of the diagrams! (I think!)

 

I still feel that any rear mounted arm type indicator will (or should) release as soon as the arm rises past 90degrees.

 

I do however agree that the longer the arm the more problem with lateral movement (and indeed with some materials the actual deflection) will increase.The increase in both is quite disproportionate to the actual gain in "drop"

 

But just mentioning drop itself can lead to confusion. Remember a 24" drop will only allow an actual movement of 24" if the bobbin is located on the line directly below the point it goes over the buzzer/rod rest. If placed between two rod rings "V" style then a drop of 24" will allow a different amount of line to be taken? Hang on quick scale drawing to ensure I'm not talking Bollo!

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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You are dead right Budgie, I made a mockup and the line slips off just before the arm reaches horizontal. Maybe posititioning it further back would help, but as it wasn't reliable I would give it a miss. You can bend the end a bit more but then it makes it difficult for the line to release. If it is set anywhere much in front of the spool then it is very prone to come off much to easily...a few gusts of wind, and the line will come off.

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Hang on, I'm not sure I'm understanding this right - are you saying that when the swinger head is pulled up to or past 90degrees the line should release from it? If so, what about line bites?

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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No I am right.For example (the figures are rough from a very quick sketch but good enough to show my point) a bobbin on a 50cm drop vertically below the buzzer will move 50cm! However a bobbin placed between two rings in the conventional "V" and pulled down to the same level (50cm) will have 60cms of line either side of it.If the bobbin grips the line it can move 60cm (one half of the "V") or if its free running 120cms of line will have to be taken before the bobbin moves the vertical 50cm.

 

Similar things will need to be taken in to account when building swinger arms.Here though I should think the actual position of the "hinge"/fulcrum is the deciding factor. For me the easiest way and most likely most practical is my rod pod set up in the living room! I plan to play around this week with various combinations to see what actually works.

 

At the moment (in my head rather than on any actual mock up) the length of arm I need to get the distance of movement I want is to much! I'm sure the old "Queensford" style ones I had were no where near the lengths I'm looking at now!

 

Ah well I will fiddle and report back soon as I have something.I think the actual playing will help me understand it better and maybe some of the problems I see in my mind wont actually be problems in practice!

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Hang on, I'm not sure I'm understanding this right - are you saying that when the swinger head is pulled up to or past 90degrees the line should release from it? If so, what about line bites?

 

 

Yes but the distance it has before it reaches this position should be dictated by the amount of movement that you would expect from a line bite. Get what I mean? Remember the 90degrees position can be set to be just under the rod or whatever distance away from it you want determined by the position of the hinge/fulcrum/pivot point in relation to distance (vertically) from the rod.

 

Actual playing with the set up makes it much clearer.

 

Ive got some welding rod and similar lengths of material I'm going to make the mock ups from so I don't cut my carbon till I'm sure I'm right!

 

Jeeze its amazing how something that seems so simple can be so complicated.................or is it really the other way round?

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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After all this though I'm only playing as if push comes to shove I'm quite happy with bobbins in most situations.The dodge me and the Burkester both use (neither of us have ever seen anyone but each other use it!) is simple and effective in most wind conditions and thats as follows (cant remember if weve posted it before?)-

 

I peg my bobbins down directly beneath the rod rather than attaching the cord to the buzzer bar/rod rest. When it gets windy I place split shot on the cord.BUT not directly below the bobbin.Its pinched on (in the amount required to cancel the wind strength) 6-8" below the bobbin,The shot actually sits on the deck.This stabilizes the bobbin but allows it to still show drop backs.

 

When it really gets windy and I would need more shot than I want to add I just use my "Bobbin House" 3 sheets of perspex (can use ply or any other sheet material just that perspex gives you all round vision) hinged together to make a three sided wall.Simply placed around the bobbins to shield them. Most of the time my tackle "bag" is my trailer so its bulk isn't a problem but if you need to it to be a bit more compact it wouldn't take that much to knock up a mini roll up beach windbreak type thing.

 

I just think the "swingers" will be a bit more compact and "tidier"(?) but if they fail or I'm not happy with them I'm not to worried as Ive got these to fall back on.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Jeeze its amazing how something that seems so simple can be so complicated.................or is it really the other way round?

 

You're not kidding, I thought I had this one sussed...!

 

One word of warning though about this line releasing from the clip thing - I've had liners at Wingham before that used up the whole drop (of a bobbin) AND then took line off the baitrunner before dropping back! If the bobbin had released at any point, I wouldn't have known it was a liner, as it couldn't have then dropped back again.

 

To be honest I was also pretty happy just using my normal bobbins last season. I will definitely have a go at making these swingers but if they don't end up working I won't be too worried. The shot on the cord is a good dodge in windy weather.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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That's interesting mate.The only liners Ive had at Wingham have been on the rare (erm very rare occasion) that Ive caught bream the set up I had at the time was my normal pegged down bobbin set up and the drop was around 30" the liners would rise to the top then back down where the take stayed there.

 

Cant draw much from one fish though so I will have to revert to previous experience.The water I had over 50 doubles from is the best example as both line bites and fish were regular and obviously plentiful.I used to set my bobbins up on a shorter drop (around 20-25") the difference between a liner and a take was around 2"! I would set the cord so the real take would pull the bobbin off and the liners would stop the 2" short and not. All the fish there were of around the same basic size (8-11) so I came to this arrangement just by trial and error.

 

I suppose for Wingham with the average size being higher I need to try and suss out (taking into account body length/depth etc) just how much movement a liner would give and set up accordingly.With so few chances just cant use the good old trial and error.

 

Could I (indeed would I want to?) eliminate line bites? They were a handy tool for location on other higher stocking level waters enabling you to cast out across your groundbait and just keep coming in closer till you stopped getting them.This enabled you to fish on the very edge of the shoal so you didn't spook fish by dragging out one from the middle! Gave me a lot of high number multiple catches.But does this have any relevance to SB waters like Wingham? I think on numbers alone it might not work the same.So maybe in this case I could live without reading liners?

 

Hard to break the habits of a life time especially when they've worked so well and trying to do so certainly hasn't helped my breaming at Wingham. As usual I don't know! I'm going to go back to my old tactics this year though purely based on confidence and the fact that they did produce my one Wingham fish and two seasons of "modified tactics" have left me un confident and bream less!

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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I've come to the conclusion that none of us are actually doing anything that wrong when it comes to the bream - except picking the wrong swims! Despite so few captures over the years (comparatively), they've been caught on so many different rigs and baits, over big beds of feed and none at all, different distances out from under the rod tip to a good chuck towards the middle, and with very different indicators to show (or not!) liners and real bites...I think you're right, being confident in what you're doing is really important.

 

I've only had 'proper' liners once at Wingham, and didn't catch anything. They went on for hours! Those were the ones that sometimes slowly clicked the baitrunner before dropping back. However, this was before I started using long banksticks, so the drop was probably only about 24". I've always made sure I've had a longer drop than that since then.

 

All the liners I've had since then (only 2 or 3 occasions) have been one-offs - one or two and then nothing. They may well have not even been bream! As they weren't consistent I assume it was a fish or group of fish just moving through without stopping, somewhere between the rod and the rig.

 

The first time I caught a bream I did get a few slow and short rises, but these were several hours before catching (fishing about 40 yards out). The second time I didn't have any liners (fishing just 15 yards out) but Rob had lots a couple of swims away beforehand.

 

I still try to keep the last few feet of line pinned down to avoid liners right by the rig, but to be honest I think I'd rather get liners than not, even (especially?) if I don't catch. A definite bream liner is another pin in the map, and those are like gold dust. Unless you strike at them, the liners don't seem to spook the bream, so I don't think it worries them.

 

By the way, these are the swingers I just bought to modify: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-X-DELUXE-RED-BITE-...=item35a66d429d

 

Other members had liners not far from where I fluked that fish last season. That may suggest that they (that group, at least) didn't wander too far last summer and stayed pretty much in one area?

Edited by Anderoo

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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