Big bream

[Dan Dan]

Well I'd definately be up for some bream fishing, I don't really have access to any "slabs" near me, unless I fish the Thames (which is proving VERY difficult for me >_<), so yeah DO IT!

[dogstick]

BTTT

[Anderoo]

Here's an interesting question - do you think that on waters that don't see much angling pressure, big bream become wary of areas where they've been caught before?

[Dick Dastardly]

Here's an interesting question - do you think that on waters that don't see much angling pressure, big bream become wary of areas where they've been caught before?

 

By the mere fact that there is little angling pressure (I only count fish actually being caught as pressure) I dont think they get caught enough to learn.

 

An area where they keep bumping into lines may be a problem but I still think they need to be getting caught regularly to really start being frightened of lines and therefore areas.

 

Queenford and TC seemed to have "productive" swims so seems to back up my thoughts. One water that I caught a lot of scraper doubles from wouild often see myself and a mate fishing the same swim several evenings on the trot for several weeks on the trot! Here though they were definately shoal feeding and I believe came to expect to find food in the area.As shoal feeders we groundbaited very heavily. Didnt really pay enough notice to be able to say whether we got recaptures or not.So many fish of course that we could have been quite easily catching different (un spooked?) fish each time.

[Anderoo]

I've now read Derek Quirk's excellent book 'Bream', which has probably posed more new questions than answered old ones The more I read and talk about big bream the more I admire and respect them - they must be the ultimate coarse fishing challenge. There's so much mystery surrounding them, and what makes it all especially difficult is that no two waters are the same - that is, the bream in different waters behave differently, and there's never enough data to suss it out.

 

Wingham certainly fits the description of a potential record-breaking water. But then everyone knows that!

 

The section on Queenford is very interesting. What strikes me about Queenford (compared to Wingham) is the relative lack of features. Whereas Wingham is literally covered in very shallow bars, Queenford only has a scattering. Also the depth of water over those bars is a decent depth (5-7ft), with much of the surrounding water weeded up. Potential feeding/fishing areas are therefore dramatically reduced.

 

It has made me seriously rethink bolt rigs and big baits too! But then I'm back to fighting eels...

 

I recommend the book to anyone interested in big bream, the stories of endless blank nights and then out of nowhere a multiple catch of monster bream are superb

 

This paragraph from the introduction (talking about gravel pit bream) sums it up for me, explaining the fascination and feeling of a kind of excited hopelessness of big bream fishing in pits:

 

In a way this immense task can be compared to completing a 'giant' jigsaw puzzle. To solve the puzzle a great deal of time is spent sorting out the various shapes and colour codes of all the individual pieces, and slowly but surely slotting them all together. Eventually the puzzle falls into place and we are rewarded with a nicely completed 'picture'. Similarly, out in the dingy exploring the various features and different consistencies of the bottom contour, and slowly but surely building up a map of the water. Eventually the map can be drawn up to give us a completed picture of what lies beneath the surface. However, there is one thing missing from the carefully mapped out feature: the bream!

 

Basically they could be anywhere amongst the huge array of features, and even with the aid of the painstakingly formulated map it can be something of a lottery deciding where to fish. Perhaps locating gravel pit bream could be more likened to completing an upside-down jigsaw puzzle; it's near impossible to put all the pieces together, and even when this is accomplished we end up with a blank 'picture'.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Anderoo

[Dick Dastardly]

But did you understand the NE bank thing!

[Anderoo]

But did you understand the NE bank thing!

 

Not really, it seems to be based on it receiving the prevailing SW winds, which are usually warm. However, on a gravel pit with masses of criss-crossed shallow bars, what you effectively have is miles and miles of margins, so I think it's pretty much irrelevant! I also noticed that the NE bank at Queenford was out of bounds. Probably more useful on featureless waters like the meres rather than gravel pits.

 

Incidentally, does Queenford still exist? I had a look on Google maps and can't see it. (Also incidentally, it said that Queenford was seeded with Farmoor bream, obviously good stock.)

 

There was some useful info about good feeding conditions - settled weather seems to be important, whether that's 3 days of sun or 3 days of rain. Sudden changes in weather, especially temperature or pressure, are not good news. No mention of undertow!

 

There were also some photos of his home-made indicators, which got me thinking about Rich's bobbin topic. They look good, they're basically carp-style swingers with a moveable counterbalance, but with very long arms to allow for a long drop. I might make some. As long as the arms are plastic (stiff boom tube would do) they needn't weigh anything, and they'd be windproof.

 

There are some interesting rig idea, like the bouyant feeder. Probably of less use for the bream I'm after, but I reckon that could be deadly for large uneducated perch...

 

What you said before about the double hook rigs was in there too, that most fish came to the top bait. I'm starting to think that when targetting these fish you have to fish all-out with the express purpose of catching either nothing or getting a big hit - 2-5 really big fish. Alex has said similar things. A big bait (boilie, pellet, lobworm, etc.) fished hard on the deck is likely to be the last food item eaten in a night - therefore (if the bream pay you a visit) you're likely to catch only 1 fish. IF you can fish small, semi-bouyant natural baits without either foul-hooking fish or getting pestered by eels or perch, I reckon (if the bream visit!) you could get a multiple catch.

 

The story of one of his multiple catches, where he rows his bait out after catching one and his marker with the starlight on is dancing and heaving under the disturbance of the still-feeding shoal under his boat, was a real eye-opener.

 

The blank nights come as standard, but if/when you get a chance, it makes sense to try to capitalise on it! When I was lucky enough to catch my fish, the bream were rolling on and off for another hour, still feeding, more than likely picking out the last (large) items from the groundbait. (I did recast but by then it was dawn and so I started catching tench ) On the following night the weather turned, with high winds and heavy rain, and they didn't come back. When they're really feeding hard on bait they don't seem to mind their shoal-mates disappearing.

 

Just a theory, but it seems to hang together from what I've seen/read/heard.

[Dick Dastardly]

The thing about the bars echos my thoughts to.Im seriously considering trying Graeme Pullens ideas on location.Not done it before but it would certainly be a logical way to attack a "multi barred" water like Wingham.It also kind of follows on from the "pinch" spot theory weve been discussing.

 

This year has been an absolute disaster bream wise for me.I missed out on nearly all of the "cream" time before spawning with being laid up in hospital then the long recovery. Going to try and get some good time in late September/October ( I rate October as the best time to get a non "spawn assisted"! biggie!) Going to try and book in my allowed "week" session then and get as many 3 day sessions in as possible.

 

The indicators Derek mentions in his book were DIY jobs but one bloke (cant remember the name for the life of me) did market them.My fishing partner at the time (Rob) brought some.They had a really neat line gate mechanism on them.Ive got some if you want one to copy? I still use them in very windy (mainly cross winds) conditions.As you say they are very light (my arms are very thin stainless wire) certainly a lot lighter than any bobbin set up with additional weighting that you would need in big winds. Rob took to using them for all his breaming.

 

As for the baiting disturbance thing,one bream water I fished had jet skis on it during the day and we couldnt fish untill all were off the water and the owner raised an "all clear" flag. One day I got off work a bit earlier than usual and when I got down the lake the skis were still out.As was usual I started putting my bait out amongst all the comotion.It was only corn as opposed to bread crumb but there was still several gallons. No sooner had I put the lot out than the last ski came right over to me.It was the owner Steve.He told me that they were finnished for the day and he would be just pottering around the other end trying out some new gear.As such I was ok to start fishing straight away. So I did!

 

Now to the point! (phew at last I bet your thinking!) I didnt expect to catch for at least a few hours untill the commotion of the skis and my baiying had died down I was very supprised to start catching straight away!

 

Also looking back to my match fishing days I remember you could put loose feed in on top of feeding bream without any problems but balls of groundbait would spook them more often than not.Well in still water anyway.

 

Queenford Lagoon still exists by the way but the bream are long gone as are the big perch that were also there. Im not sure who controls the fishing anymore.Ive not been there fishing for many years now and the last trip we were trying for pike.Like Im afraid "ours" will big bream come and go.

[Dick Dastardly]

Heres a short piece by Tony Miles thats worth a read if youve not done so-

 

http://www.fishingwarehouse.co.uk/section/...mp;categoryid=1

[Anderoo]

Interesting stuff, I guess on a water with regular waterskiing the fish kind of have to get used to it - on waters which don't even see an angler for weeks at a time I suspect the slightest disturbance can be enough to kill it, except when they're really feeding hard. Another armchair theory!

 

What's Graeme Pullens location theory?

 

Something really wierd happened last night! I was in a local pub with Rich talking about bream, and had Derek Quirk's book on the table ready to lend to him. A guy at the bar asked if he could have a look, so I said sure, go ahead. He flicked through and found a page with a photo of a bloke holding two giant Queenford bream, lent over and said - that's me! It was Pete Coats! A photo of Tony Miles with a Queenford giant - I took that; a photo of Derek Quirk with 5 monster bream, oh yes, I took that too! I asked him to sign my book for me, he was a bit embarrassed but did it anyway!

 

He also said that Derek Quirk was the luckiest angler to ever fish Queenford! I was trying to think who the Wingham equivalent is, no names spring to mind...!