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Countryside Alliance and FACT in the dock.


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#11 Bruno Broughton

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 07:39 AM

The first full meeting of FACT is this coming Thursday.

(big pause)

Quite how a new reorganisation of national angling and fisheries organisations can claim a long track record of achievement when it is so new is totally beyond me, Lee, so do enlighten us all on how this is done.

For now, I think you will have to be content with observations on what it will do, hopes to do, intends to do. Sorry, Very sorry.

The members organisations of the (now dead) NAA were involved in "in-fighting", were they? We all fell out. Punch-ups were a regular feature of meetings, were they? Funny, I attended almost all of the meetings, and cannot recall any of that. Some disagreements, some doing more work than other - yes - but in-fighting? Dream on... Heh, we all got on because we were mature enough to put differences to one side. I must have sleep-walked those meetings and read the minutes wrongly, obviously.

No individual membership of FACT? Oh, really! I helped write the Memorandum & Articles of Association, so maybe I have an inside track here. Just maybe. Have you checked? Well, no, I thought not.

As ever, Lee, you appear to want to stand outside the tent and pee in. We've all got it wrong; you are right. Perhaps you could remind us all of your experience in running national organisations again.

If you REALLY believe in unity, all you have to do is to make yourself available. There's no money in it, no glory, no kudos... just lots of bloody hard (and mostly boring) work. Oh, and loads of flak.

Howsabout it - help start a website; help with the response to the EA 'Angling in 2015' consultation response (which has occupied about a week of Mike Heylin's own time in the last month, and a few days of mine and several others). Oh, heh, put YOURSELF in the frame as Executive Officer. Or fund-raiser. Or... well, anything really. Except don't anticipate respect for the undeserved slagging off you started this thread with. It really does smack of a man with negativity written through him like letters in a stick of rock.

BTW, FACT is not competitive with the CA which, to remind you, is NOT an angling organisation. It has its place in the wider scheme of things, and I respect that, but for all its funding and organisational skills, I cannot accredit it with any real angling achievements. Please enlighten me - what are they?

Talk is really easy, as you say. Really easy. Slagging off those who try their best is facile, but it does you no credit whatsoever when you lapse into tabloid mold. Why don't YOU do something positive, just for a change, instead of throwing stones. Go on - I challege you. Or is it just the sound of breaking glass that turns you on?
Bruno
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'He who laughs, lasts'

#12 kleinboet

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 01:19 PM

Bruno -whilst I agree that angling needs an umbrella organisation to see to the needs of anglers and to field the questions from the antis, I (as a angler who just wants to be able to fish) cannot understand all the infighting.

Surely, all this argument is coming from the COMMITTEES of NFA, ACA, etc. etc. All that needs to be done (and I say all, yet it would be a major undertaking) is for FACT to contact anglers like me directly!

All these big organisations that claim to represent large percentages of the angling fraternity. Let them send a referendum form (neutrally designed by FACT)to the rank and file asking THEM what they want.

What we have at the moment are the committees of all these organisations falling out with one another as each wants to be the 'major player' in any new organisation, which means that, if left to the organisations, we will NEVER have an umbrella organisation.

As far as sending out a referundum form, why not ask the EA to give you a list of all license holders, or if they won't release it let them send a form to every license holder. alternately wait until next year and let them go out with the licenses.

I am sure that a lot of these large organisations are, if known by a lot of 'rank and file' anglers, are not as popular as they make out!


fishing is nature's medical prescription

#13 Peter Waller

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 02:34 PM

What in-fighting? The fact that FACT has come into being suggests co-operataion rather than conflict.

Lee, your turn mate!

#14 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 02:57 PM

kleinboet:
As far as sending out a referundum form, why not ask the EA to give you a list of all license holders, or if they won't release it let them send a form to every license holder. alternately wait until next year and let them go out with the licenses.

Hmmm!

3-4 million Freshwater Anglers

1.5 million saltwater anglers (who has all their addresses?)

Postage > 1.2 million Pounds

(most licences are bought over the post office counter)

Cost of stationary, printing and despatch, systems to manage and merge all those all of those addresses etc paid to an agency that organises such mailings

Let's say 2 million to carry out such an exercise.

eh, I think it's back to the drawing board for that one Kleinbot, unless you've got a pot of money that you'd prefer to be spent on such an exercise, rather than on something else.

Tight Lines - leon

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#15 argyll

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 03:03 PM

Hmmm!

3-4 million Freshwater Anglers

1.5 million saltwater anglers (who has all their addresses?)

Postage > 1.2 million Pounds

(most licences are bought over the post office counter)

Cost of stationary, printing and despatch, systems to manage and merge all those all of those addresses etc paid to an agency that organises such mailings

Let's say 2 million to carry out such an exercise.

eh, I think it's back to the drawing board for that one Kleinbot, unless you've got a pot of money that you'd prefer to be spent on such an exercise, rather than on something else.

Tight Lines - leon


Then why not send them out to members that FACT claims to represent ? Assuming these orgs send out bumph, memberships etc, its just printing costs for each association. There...I've even saved you the cost of a drawing board.
'I've got a mind like a steel wassitsname'

#16 Peter Waller

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 03:11 PM

argyll:
There...I've even saved you the cost of a drawing board.

Another smart arse comment that does you no credit Gerry!

I would have thought it rather obvious that FACT represents the membership of all the associations and clubs that come, quite voluntarily, under their umbrella.

For heavens sakes, lets give FACT a chance to prove itself!

#17 poledark

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 03:21 PM

So we still have this 3-4 million freswater anglers? Fact is 1.2million licenses sold.
Anyway, the whole point about contacting anglers comes down to cost...so..get some subs in....big clubs do it every year, but they have paying members.

Lee IS right...FACT does need money, and paid members add up to money.


After all, 3-4 million anglers at 5 a head adds up to quite a large pot.....or alternatively start with a few hundred and use some of their money to contact some more.

But being realistic lets settle for a few hundred to start with and see how it goes.

It is all very well having a FEW dedicated part timers "running the ship"but they really do have to get down to building up membership big time.

By the way, don't ask me, I know I am not up to the job.

Den

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#18 argyll

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 03:54 PM

Another smart arse comment that does you no credit Gerry!


Stop foaming at the mouth Peter, your forum history is littered with smart arse unhelpful comments. Would you like me to drag up some of the most appalling ?

My comment,if you took the trouble to consider it, was an option for FACT to get in touch with its members. You do remember those little people that might just want to add something to the direction that their umbrella organisation is eventually going to take? In view of the comments from some on this forum who are utterly confused and want to know what FACT is, it might be an ideal opportunity to let all of them know whats going on at the top of their tree. I don't think anyone would disagree that the CA publicity machine works better than anyone elses. If you want to progress any new organisation, you need publicity. Or perhaps thats of little or no importance to you ?

[ 21. March 2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: argyll ]
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#19 waterman1013

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 04:23 PM

From slodger "Mike Heylin's piece in the SAA mag and in one paragraph he states that FACT is now up and running, yet later in the piece he talks about the need for anglers to send him their ideas for the organisation, and then goes on to mention an idea from someone suggesting that individuals might fund a seperate FACT supporters club"

From kleinboet "Let them send a referendum form (neutrally designed by FACT)to the rank and file asking THEM what they want."

Sorry, that is what I thought I was attempting to do for SAA members in the piece quoted by slodger from New Specialist Angler.

Still that is alright because there is loads of comment here but NONE in my mail box. Just about sums it all up really. OH, I know - it must be the closed season.

Does no one here realise that constructive ideas from anglers are what will make the difference and give ammunition to those seeking real change?

Slagging off the first step of the Long March would not have helped the Chinese, yet it all started with that first step. The formation of FACT is that first step for angling along the path to a unified body representing all anglers, but if you would rather spend your time debating here than contributing ideas to FACT then maybe, just maybe, you should all be looking inwards rather than at FACT, where we have real debate and try to address these issues, without falling out.

Falling out has become an urban myth within angling. Bruno is correct. In NAA we had many quite heated discussions but we never once fell out, we could all see the bigger picture and that is how FACT came about. FACT is larger than NAA, encompasses more organisations, agendas and aims and has the potential to be what you all seem to want it to be. Why don't you develop a manifesto of what you want and let me have it by email?

It won't happen overnight but at least you will have put your ideas on the table. And you might just be surprised when FACT listens.

Mike
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#20 j_s

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 06:03 PM

I'd like to see, perhaps from Bruno what areas FACT need help with if possible. I know it's probably all areas but it would be nice to see some specific requests then perhaps those anglers on the net (like us) can start the ball rolling and perhaps help out.
James