Countryside Alliance and FACT in the dock.

[Peter Sharpe]

'The fact is that however carefully you return your fish, some will be permanently harmed and some will die as a result of being caught.'

 

This statement is true, but it is also true that most anglers care passionately about the welfare of fish. Those who do not fish would notice no difference whatsoever if all the fish in their local river were killed overnight and drifted downstream out of sight. Other than anglers, there are a tiny number of people who are capable of guarding fish life in our waters. Without anglers, business interests would soon cause watercourses to become either sterile, cosmetically clean waters or else stinking sewers. When is the last time you ever heard of a none angler taking part in a fish rescue operation?

I can only say that my experiences of the hunting crowd have been very negative. I have seen them blocking access to a public footpath while they entered a wood illegally and I have also been unfortunate enough to be in a local pub when they descended upon it in full regalia, talking at the top of their voices (most definitely whiny and upper-crust - the commoners among them must have been banished to the stables) and blocking access to the bar. I have also witnessed a rugby team doing something similar, but they made no pretence to be anything other than ignorant yobs, which is at least honesty - of a kind.

[Sportsman]

Dave

I don't think I am out of touch and if you read my last post you will see that I return virtually every fish I catch.

I do however accept that in catching and releasing them I do at worst risk their wellbeing and at best cause them some, possibly, transient distress.

I accept that many fish are released to be caught again, I have caught the same pike 3 times at 28lbs - 28lbs 7ozs and 29lbs 6 ozs. I look forward to the next time! I have never caught a 30!

The fact is I accept that I risk the wellbeing of the fish for my own amusement, and anyone who does not accept this is being less than honest with themselves.

I am not ashamed of what I do, I have no reason to be. I do whatever I can to minimise the impact I have on the fish I catch but I maintain that if we want to have no impact the answer is simple - stop fishing!

Regards

Dave Olley

[Sportsman]

Peter

I agree entirely, anglers do much more good for the fish than harm, I have no problem with that.

Having said that the Hunt did more for fox conservation than anyone else, for exactly the same reason.

I have to say that my experience of anti-hunt "sabs" has been extremely negative. I used to live near to a farm where the hunt regularly met. On one occasion I was driving home with my wife and 2 year old in the car. The turn into the lane was blocked by a transit van full of "rent an A*****le" types who, when asked politely to move threatened me and threatened to throw a steel stake through the car window. I had nothing to do with and no interest in the hunt but I lived in the country and wore a Barbour jacket so....

I think the types you descibe in the pub are just as unpleasant and explain why I will happily shoot a fox but have never followed a hunt

Regards

Dave Olley

[Jaffa]

Fish "feel" pain and the antis have the science to back them up.

 

IMHO whatever branch of angling your into, however precious or special you think your particular bit of the sport is, thats the bottom line.

 

Kill the fish or catch and release (mostly in response to attempts to preserve good fishing rather than some moral code)its all the same.

[Sportsman]

Have to agree jaffa

[GlennB]

Jaffa:

Fish "feel" pain and the antis have the science to back them up.

There's a whole new thread in that statement

Some fish have been shown to have nociceptors ('pain' receptors) around the head region.

Whether they have sufficent brain equipment to conciously experience their own 'pain' is a very different question.

[Jaffa]

A question that the antis and media won't spend too much time pondering......

[Paul Boote]

Peter Sharpe:

'The fact is that however carefully you return your fish, some will be permanently harmed and some will die as a result of being caught.'

 

This statement is true, but it is also true that most anglers care passionately about the welfare of fish. Those who do not fish would notice no difference whatsoever if all the fish in their local river were killed overnight and drifted downstream out of sight. Other than anglers, there are a tiny number of people who are capable of guarding fish life in our waters. Without anglers, business interests would soon cause watercourses to become either sterile, cosmetically clean waters or else stinking sewers. When is the last time you ever heard of a none angler taking part in a fish rescue operation?

I can only say that my experiences of the hunting crowd have been very negative. I have seen them blocking access to a public footpath while they entered a wood illegally and I have also been unfortunate enough to be in a local pub when they descended upon it in full regalia, talking at the top of their voices (most definitely whiny and upper-crust - the commoners among them must have been banished to the stables) and blocking access to the bar. I have also witnessed a rugby team doing something similar, but they made no pretence to be anything other than ignorant yobs, which is at least honesty - of a kind.

Yup.

 

Excellent, Peter.

 

Like me, you appear to understand that 'Crimson' doesn't necessarily mean (nowadays, at least) "red in tooth and claw". Confusing for some, but what the.......

[Leon Roskilly]

See:

 

http://www.cotrout.org/do_fish_feel_pain.htm

 

An even more interesting discussion is to be had in defining what 'pain' is in human terms.

 

As researchers are discovering, that is a far more complex question, and very much tied in to sociability in humans.

 

That is why any discussion about pain is so emotive to us.

 

See Human perception of pain

 

Human empathy demands that we regard fish as creatures much like us, but with fins and scales.

 

In fact they are so different, that any sensation they percieve, stripped of its cultural, psychological and emotional values is incomprehensible to us.

 

The fact that they seem perfectly able to carry on as normal, happy to take another bait within seconds of being released, still eating even with their stomach torn out by a predator seems good evidence that they don't experience 'pain'.

 

But as Jaffa says, such objectivity won't deter the antis, most of whom believe that natural harmonics control destiny, and other such rubbish science.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Leon Roskilly]

From the petition to protect the spawning bass shoals off Guernsey (please sign)

 

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/bassdebate

 

Petition entry 1034:

 

"off course, less bass less desire to come one dau to Guernsey for fishing which does'nt mean to me to keep fish but enjoy fishing as I feel it.

 

You catch a fish and when you release it it does not mean that you enjoyed the play but it means taht you immersed yourself in nature.

 

You understand it, with effort.

 

You love fish as a dog enjoys its master (who is the real master) if you do not understand me it doesn't matter as long as you feel somewhere fish is part of nature as your cliffs as much as part of me."

 

I like it

 

Tight Lines - leon