Petition to keep the close season on rivers

[Worms]

Whilst on the subject of close seasons.............game fishing. I can quite honestly say that I have never heard of anyone questioning the close season for our native game fish.

 

They are there for exactly the same reason as for the coarse fish yet are accepted by all of the game river fishermen I know without question.

 

Imagine the furore if the coarse close season was up to five months long as for salmon in some areas, with severe restrictions on baits, methods and dates that fish could be kept. Or, even worse, six months long as it is for trout with some authorities. Only one rod allowed, no keepnets etc. etc.

 

The poor hard done by angler here is the poor river trout angler who has three months (usually cut down to half that because of the spring floods) on the rivers without the risk of wading into the lines of a camouflaged coarse fisherman. I have never heard one moan though. It's all excitement and joy as three months of being able to fish the traditional upstream dry and across and down wet tactics are available without being bombarded by method feeders etc by angry, hidden specimen hunters.

 

Then again we have the close seasons for shooting and game, again, not questioned by (legal) participants and that is with hundreds of thousands, if not millions of birds reared specifically for the purpose, so, arguably the same principal as stocked water fishing pools. Still no objections.

 

Coarse anglers can fish for twelve months of the year and yet still some moan. If you fancy it you can fly fish for rainbows for twelve months of the year as well.

 

The choice is there. If you want to fish for twelve months of the year then fine, just accept that you will have to restrict your fishing to stillwaters for three months unless you wish to fish for eels in rivers. Not so long ago we didn't have the choice at all.

 

So if you don't like the EA byelaws or you believe that close seasons don't protect fish, nettles, birds or anything else spare a thought for the person, your brother/sister angler who can only have three months maximum alone on the river. That person might also be paying nearly three times what you pay for a licence to the EA to fish and he doesn't moan about that either

[Anderoo]

Excellent post!

[Guest tigger]

Worms the thing is the trout need time to spawn and reproduce due to the fact that they're often taken for the pot where as the coarse fish is normally released so the numbers arn't as deminished as game fish.

Also most of the stretches of rivers fished by the coarse anglers arn't of interest to the game fisherman, not all obviously but on the whole they arn't.

 

On the subject of shooting and the closed season the same applies as does to game fish....they are harvested every year so need to be replaced for next year hence the closed season. Only vermin is shot through out the year to keep their numbers down for obvious reasons.

Edited March 19, 2009 by tigger

[Worms]

Worms the thing is the trout need time to spawn and reproduce due to the fact that they're often taken for the pot where as the coarse fish is normally released so the numbers arn't as deminished as game fish.

Also most of the stretches of rivers fished by the coarse anglers arn't of interest to the game fisherman, not all obviously but on the whole they arn't.

 

On the subject of shooting and the closed season the same applies as does to game fish....they are harvested every year so need to be replaced for next year hence the closed season. Only vermin is shot through out the year to keep their numbers down for obvious reasons.

Hi Tigger,

 

I take your point on the taking of fish for the pot but, and a big but here is (in my area) the number of people who game fish natural populations of trout in coarse/game rivers is relatively low and, many fisheries have a catch and release policy these days. Many others have a strict one or two fish limit with a maximum number of rods per water per day. Many of these waters are managed very well and stock is enhanced by positive management to maximise natural population size.

 

My guess would be that natural predation far outstrips Human consumption on these rivers.

 

I would suggest that the lack of disturbance to the spawning areas is probably the most important issue as regards the close season for coarse fish.

 

The point on shooting and close seasons was the comparison with re-stocking fishing ponds (why re-stock if the fish aren't taken and coarse fishing doesn't take a toll on fish?). Pheasant and duck (mallard) can be brought on almost throughout the year to replace the shot birds, yet the close season remains as a tradition more than a necessity. Both of the shoots that I have been involved with rely 100% on re-stocking. The close season has, in reality nothing to do with allowing natural re-stocking.

 

Obviously with grey partridge, other wild fowl and most 'natural' game species close seasons are important for the very reasons you and I described but, pheasants?

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I would rather be safe than sorry and I would rather fish an unstocked well managed natural river than a stocked pond or river. As a coarse fisherman at least I have a choice! As a game fisherman I am restricted but I understand the reasons why. At least I can fish for coarse or game fish for 12 months of the year if I want to. I just choose to fish the natural waters and I respect the appropriate close seasons.

[JV44]

Quote Anderoo You could say that about most laws or rules, Neil. I don't think that's a good argument against a closed season. (I do agree that in an ideal world there would be much more enforcement, though.) How much dangerous driving do you see?

Anderoo the thing is if the little stream that you fly fish was sudenly descended upon by a load of Chavs,EE,Pleasure anglers and Carpers and all the kit with the banks being trod down and BBQs scortch marks on the grass the 16th would sudenly lose its appeal and the recces walking the banks looking for fish spots ect not seem as appealing if you kept bumping into guys fishing out of season,Now this aint likely to happen on a small stream but it sure does on the Thames and by the sound of it Neils river to and it drives me mad and when you report it you get told that they cannot be everywhere Argh!!!.

The excuse that most use when i have challanged them is they thought that it was the same close as Lakes but i think that most are well aware esp the carp guys and have this as there stock answer/get out of jail free card,They dont make any effort to move off unless you get the camera out but if you are mooring up at night in the middle of nowhere this isnt the best plan of attack for obvious reasons,Just want them to enforce it ffs as if they dont the numbers will/are increasing every year ,i will report the Ea river inspectors boat if i see it ignore anyone this year as they have allways been quick enough to check my rod and boat licence when they come across me in the season [and i am very pleased that they do ] so why they have this lets pretend i cant see them mentality in the close is beyond me,they could surley use it as a cash cow for revenue if they had a crackdown or prehaps that is there cunning plan .

As has been said most peoples views on the subject are selfish from there stance on the close and i do respect it although if they dont get a grip of it then how long before the guys that are not fishing oout of season get fed up and take the if you cant beat them ...... attitude hence adding more to the ranks of those that do fish it in the close,Like many laws cannot see the point if it is not enforced steve.

[Guest tigger]

Hi Tigger,

 

I take your point on the taking of fish for the pot but, and a big but here is (in my area) the number of people who game fish natural populations of trout in coarse/game rivers is relatively low and, many fisheries have a catch and release policy these days. Many others have a strict one or two fish limit with a maximum number of rods per water per day. Many of these waters are managed very well and stock is enhanced by positive management to maximise natural population size.

 

My guess would be that natural predation far outstrips Human consumption on these rivers.

 

I would suggest that the lack of disturbance to the spawning areas is probably the most important issue as regards the close season for coarse fish.

 

The point on shooting and close seasons was the comparison with re-stocking fishing ponds (why re-stock if the fish aren't taken and coarse fishing doesn't take a toll on fish?). Pheasant and duck (mallard) can be brought on almost throughout the year to replace the shot birds, yet the close season remains as a tradition more than a necessity. Both of the shoots that I have been involved with rely 100% on re-stocking. The close season has, in reality nothing to do with allowing natural re-stocking.

 

Obviously with grey partridge, other wild fowl and most 'natural' game species close seasons are important for the very reasons you and I described but, pheasants?

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I would rather be safe than sorry and I would rather fish an unstocked well managed natural river than a stocked pond or river. As a coarse fisherman at least I have a choice! As a game fisherman I am restricted but I understand the reasons why. At least I can fish for coarse or game fish for 12 months of the year if I want to. I just choose to fish the natural waters and I respect the appropriate close seasons.

 

 

The rivers you fish sound very well managed but unfortunatly many of the coarse/game rivers round here arn't so well managed by a long way. There's virtually no checks on the quantities of fish taken by people or to be hoest no real fish managment either. I think that level of fish managment etc is only really found on the out and out game stretches of river round these parts.

 

Regarding the shooting closed season being nessesary or not, well it is of the uptmost importance for a well run shoot. Who wants to be shooting a hen pheasn't full of eggs or sitting a clutch etc. Also it's virtually impossible to beat a wood or area full of undergrowth, fields full of crops and stock the list goes on. Also a shoot is probably the best of any nature reserves as most of the wild creatures are protected throughout the year and left to thrive so they would be destroted by beaters and dogs thrashing through the woods. I was a full time keeper for several years and unlike most of todays keepers who get their poults from game farms I used to catch up at the end of the season and go to all the trouble of having laying pens, collecting the eggs, incubating them and rearing the chicks which as you probably know is hard work changing the bits,dee beaking, making sure the rearing sheds and food/water utensils are spotless for fear of a disease etc etc , taking them to the release pen, clipping them and all the rest of it. All this requires a closed season and to be quite honest is very different to the closed season for coarse fish. As you have mentioned the english partridge, hares, woodcock and the now wild pheasn'ts are all rearing chicks that are helpless and doomed without their parents to guide/look after them. Lets face it our native fish do no such thing and once the eggs are layed that's it their off. Being realistic I don't think you can actually compare the shooting closed season to the fish closed season or should I say coarse fishing closed season.

[Angly]

they have always been quick enough to check my rod and boat licence when they come across me in the season [and i am very pleased that they do ] so why they have this lets pretend i cant see them mentality in the close is beyond me,they could surely use it as a cash cow for revenue if they had a crackdown or perhaps that is there cunning plan .

 

Dare I say...(checks to see he's not being monitored)...accountants! You have a boat, you can afford to pay a fine! Bloke on bank, esp. if looking of foreign origin, might well be out of work...not worth spending the money to chase someone that can't pay.

Not saying it's right, but that is how they work, even the Police work to a similar principle, fine those most likely to pay up.

[Worms]

I'll concede the point on the details of the shoot/game close seasons Tigger, it was used more as a comparison as regards stocking requirements as opposed to the wholesale bird welfare issue that (most) gamekeepers are so skilled at. It does disappoint me that more traditional keeping isn't practised these days, but that's rather symptomatic of our lifestyle today I suppose.

 

I feel very lucky to fish the rivers that I do and I do see some very 'scarred' rivers on my travels around the country. That's why I live here and travel to work I suppose.

 

I don't know where you fish Tigger, any clues?

 

I do consider myself very lucky to fish rivers that are not (as a rule) overfished or spoilt by coachloads of anglers

Edited March 19, 2009 by Worms

[Anderoo]

Steve, I do take your point. As it happens, it does seem to be Thames anglers who are often the ones to to have a similar viewpoint (it's clear from other forums, esp Cemex) so I assume it's a fairly localised problem. Not that this is any comfort for locals. The Thames around Oxford doesn't seem to suffer in this respect - I see nobody fishing any local rivers in the open season, let alone the closed season! Although this may change this year, following the huge 'stocking' of carp in 2007. With any luck they'll have made their way down to the lower river by now - I know it sounds a bit NIMBY, but the lower river already has problems like you say.

 

Honestly, I can count on one hand the number of river anglers I've seen in the last 12 months.

 

But like you say, there are obviously some areas which have a problem with illegal fishing, and those areas should be enforced by the EA.

[JV44]

Steve, I do take your point. As it happens, it does seem to be Thames anglers who are often the ones to to have a similar viewpoint (it's clear from other forums, esp Cemex) so I assume it's a fairly localised problem. Not that this is any comfort for locals. The Thames around Oxford doesn't seem to suffer in this respect - I see nobody fishing any local rivers in the open season, let alone the closed season! Although this may change this year, following the huge 'stocking' of carp in 2007. With any luck they'll have made their way down to the lower river by now - I know it sounds a bit NIMBY, but the lower river already has problems like you say.

 

Honestly, I can count on one hand the number of river anglers I've seen in the last 12 months.

 

But like you say, there are obviously some areas which have a problem with illegal fishing, and those areas should be enforced by the EA.

Anderoo glad you have seen the posts on the Cemex site as it shows a few other areas suffer,wasnt having a dig mate just if you dont see it happening then it does not rob you of that magic on the 16th.

There are some big carp in the area downstream of me where the marina is which is right next to Sonning Eye pit and loads fish it in the hope of catching the Eye if its still in the area/alive which leads to many trying in the favourable springtime close ,Fish like these which swim in and out of the marina are there in numbers .

I am going to try to encourage the others at the marina to report this out of season fishing as well when they see it as they may be more likely to act if more complaints are received steve.