Petition to keep the close season on rivers

[Anderoo]

Utterly pointless unless enforced properly (which it isn't)

 

You could say that about most laws or rules, Neil. I don't think that's a good argument against a closed season. (I do agree that in an ideal world there would be much more enforcement, though.) How much dangerous driving do you see?

 

The 'rational' argument doesn't make sense to me. If we took that to its logical conclusion, there'd be virtually no fishing at all, just in case something is getting ready to spawn/is spawning/just spawned. Can someone provide data showing which months are guarenteed to be completely free from coarse fish spawning? Also, some of my local streams hold trout, so their spawning times will need to be taken into account too. As much as we try, there's no way of being 100% species-specific when fishing.

 

I am not an expert in any of this - and I'd be willing to bet that applies to almost everyone here too - but I suspect that if we were rational about it, we would be left with about 3 months of the year, and probably none where trout are present.

 

The other way to be rational is to do away with it completely based on scientific evidence that catching spawning fish is harmless. Any data to support this? I know some species like tench and carp are as tough as old boots, but what about roach, bream, dace, chub, etc.?

 

I agree with Richard, it's the heavily stocked lakes which need it more than anywhere, just out of a basic level of respect. I don't care if profits are damaged. The minute we see fish in terms of pounds and pence, we've lost our way.

 

It's true that I like the closed season for selfish reasons, and I'm happy to admit that. The same is true of the other group though. We all have our reasons, but I don't think mine are any less valid for being 'irrational'.

 

*Puts on floppy hat and reminisces about the good old days*

 

**...while tench fishing in April and May with bolt rigs and alarms...**

[Vagabond]

The coarse closed season........ was brought in by the MP for Sheffield Anthony Mundella in 1878. This in response to heavy lobbying from his local constituents (Sheffield was the centre of intense coarse fishing activity) to protect fish stocks.

 

Right, so the "tradition" is that for hundreds of years before 1878 no close season - so that scuppers the "I stick to tradition" argument.

 

As I have said before, every water should have a rest period for a month or so - but determined by a competent local fishery officer, NOT a blanket closure imposed by politicians.

 

Different close periods for different waters - other countries (Canada, USA, Australia) manage it

[Guest tigger]

Anderoo I don't think fish are really easy to catch when actually in the process of breeding as they're to pre occupied to bother with food........

..............but then again if someone dangled a cream cake over YOU while YOU where in the middle of breeding you may prefer to stop breeding and chase the cake

 

 

Also .........**...while tench fishing in April and May with bolt rigs and alarms...**........... try propper tench fishing with a waggler rod and a float you'll have a thousand times more fun

[Anderoo]

Right, so the "tradition" is that for hundreds of years before 1878 no close season - so that scuppers the "I stick to tradition" argument.

 

As I have said before, every water should have a rest period for a month or so - but determined by a competent local fishery officer, NOT a blanket closure imposed by politicians.

 

Different close periods for different waters - other countries (Canada, USA, Australia) manage it

 

Ah, but it's my tradition! The one I grew up with. I'm not fussed what happened before 1878.

 

Tigger, I have no kids and am putting on weight - draw your own conclusions

 

I would love to do more floatfishing for tench, but unfortunately traditional tench waters are extremely scarce around here. I assume your Wingham PB was on the float...?

[Worms]

The current close season was implemented because, in the days before keepnets, matchfishing involved killing everything caught so it could be weighed. MP for Sheffield Mr. A.J. Mundella proposed the close season in 1878

 

The close season thereby gave a 'rest' period for the fish to spawn. The dates chosen were a compromise based on beliefs by different bodies on which months would be best.

 

The EA spent £50,000 on research on canals and whether the close season made a difference. The answer was largely 'no' so the close season was lifted on the majority of canals.

 

The current thinking on the rivers close season is one of 'better safe than sorry' The EA have looked into the feasibility of research but, the cost would be huge. Obviously to make a comparitive survey (with the canal survey) would involve the cooperation of hundreds of landowners and hundreds of miles of river throughout the country. The resulting analysis of the results may even throw up inaccurate information as the 'open' rivers chosen may be targetted by many more anglers than would normally fish them (my opinion).

 

So, for once it would seem that the EA is being criticised for being cautious in attampting to save fish stocks without scientific facts to support their stance.

 

In my view this is a pleasant change to the 'norm' where govt. and private bodies usually cock something up then have to spend millions of tax payer's money (including that of the antis) to put things right.

 

So, without the evidence I support the EA stance and the close season on rivers. After all if I want to go coarse fishing I can always go puddle chucking. As it is I'll choose to go fluff chucking.

 

An aside here, but I belong to a well established club that fishes a river that was well known and fished for the salmon and other game fish. The club rules are even more restrictive than the EA close season rules and the EA byelaws concerning baits etc. The majority fish the river for coarse fish, but, the restrictions certainly don't diminish the joy or indeed the quality of fishing the water.

 

If you want serious restrictions (bait/methods etc.) on your coarse fishing try fishing any river that comes under the Welsh water/EA jurisdiction. Now book a day for barbel, chub, pike etc. on the biggest of these rivers. In my opinion one of the best rivers in the country for coarse fish (and game come to that)!

 

Tight (silk) lines

[Steve Burke]

As Chris said the closed season was brought in to protect fish stocks, and in fact was asked for by coarse anglers who at that time ate many of the fish they caught.

 

River fish are deemed in law to be wild and therefore not owned by anyone. They're not even your's if you stock them in a river that you have the fishing rights on. That's not true of stillwater fish that are almost always owned by someone.

 

For this reason and the reasons below (copied from an earlier post of mine on the closed season) I feel that greater protection is required for river fish compared with their stillwater cousins.

 

I'd add that in my experience it's not when the fish are heavy with spawn that they need protecting. Rather it's immediately after they've spawned that they're most vulnerable.

 

"The closed season was brought in to protect stocks at a time when it was common to take fish for the table. These days the situation is very different with the vast majority of stillwaters (and I'm not talking about just commercials here) being grossly overstocked and thus not needing such protection. Thus there's no scientific reason to have a stillwater closed season to protect the fish themselves. I'll come back to the other issues later.

 

On the other hand the stock density on rivers is much lower. In fact, unlike most of their stillwater cousins, these fish need to breed to sustain their populations. They therefore need protection at spawning time, especially as on many rivers the fish travel to the same areas each year, where they're particularly vulnerable to angling pressure.

 

For the above reason I'm in favour of a closed season on rivers.

 

Additionally on rivers the fishing rights on adjacent stretches, or even opposite banks, may be owned by a multitude of different people/organisations, and what one does will effect his neighbour. It's therefore impractical to have different closed seasons imposed by different owners. Thus there's an argument for a national closed season with fixed dates on our rivers.

 

With the exception of large waters like the Broads, stillwaters normally have just one owner. Moreover there's a wide variation in stocking policies, angling pressure etc. On some waters a closed season would be beneficial, on others it wouldn't.

 

Therefore on stillwaters I'm very firmly of the opinion that any decision on whether to have a closed season should be decided by the fishery managers themselves - and certainly not the government.

 

For instance, on my own gravel pits at Wingham (that I also run as a nature reserve) there's so little pressure by anyone, let alone anglers, that a closed season has little practical benefit to the fish, the bankside or the wildlife. I know this to be true because when the statutory closed season on stillwaters was abolished I kept it for the first year. The second year I had a winter closed season on one lake, a conventional closed season on the other. There was no measurable effect on either the fish or the wildlife (we do wildlife surveys, including a monthly bird one). Indeed, there was a benefit in not having a closed season as, although the overall population remained unchanged, birds didn't nest in the few popular swims and thus didn't have a sudden disturbance on June 16th.

 

Having said this, I do impose a short closed season on the Coarse Lake at Wingham. The dates will vary from year to year but will always be for the 2 weeks immediately after the bream spawn. This is because at this time (not before they spawn), big bream are especially vulnerable, and there is often some natural mortality at this time. The problem though doesn't seem to happen with other species.

 

All of the above is based upon science rather than emotion.

 

Of course there's the emotional argument in favour of a closed season from those who like the romance of opening day and the break itself. If they choose not to fish then that's their loss and their choice. Having said that it's a view I have some sympathy with and certain respect.

 

What I won't tolerate though is any attempt by them or anyone else to change the law so that my own choice is restricted. In particular I'll fight tooth and nail to be able to manage my own fishery in the way I think is best. In fact, such interference is one of the few things that gets me hot under the collar!

 

I feel that the present situation is a very workable compromise, as well as being good science. The romantics have a closed season on the rivers, whilst most stillwaters are open for those of us who want to coarse fish through some of the best months of the year."

[Guest tigger]

Tigger, I have no kids and am putting on weight - draw your own conclusions

 

I would love to do more floatfishing for tench, but unfortunately traditional tench waters are extremely scarce around here. I assume your Wingham PB was on the float...?

 

 

I'm still on a diet myself, mind you I'm doin alright I've lost a stone and a half in 19 days. I'm tryin to get fit so I'm able to carry all the bloody fishin gear without sweatin

 

Yeah Anderoo your right my pb tench was as you assume bolt rig caught. I had tincas over 8lb on the waggler and float with starlight attached last year though and it really is so much better than using those heavy rods and weights. It's like comparing catching barbel on the trotting gear compared tocatching them on 2lbtest rods and bolt rigs. Anderoo your always welcome up here if you want some tench fishing on the float gear bud.

[JV44]

I'm still on a diet myself, mind you I'm doin alright I've lost a stone and a half in 19 days. I'm tryin to get fit so I'm able to carry all the bloody fishin gear without sweatin

 

Yeah Anderoo your right my pb tench was as you assume bolt rig caught. I had tincas over 8lb on the waggler and float with starlight attached last year though and it really is so much better than using those heavy rods and weights. It's like comparing catching barbel on the trotting gear compared tocatching them on 2lbtest rods and bolt rigs. Anderoo your always welcome up here if you want some tench fishing on the float gear bud.

A stone and a half in 19 days what diet are you on the food poisoning diet ,I used to have to lose a lot in my last years competeing in TKD to make the weights but found that i put it straight back on prob due to the speed in which i lost it in the first place,Aint getting older/metabolic rate change thing a bitch!.

Your post on the Tench has inspired me to have a go soon as i have joined a lake with Tench in for the close and was going to wait a while but maybe its better to have a go before it gets chocked with weed Steve.

[lutra]

Different close periods for different waters - other countries (Canada, USA, Australia) manage it

And we manage it very well in this country in game fishing.

 

I'd add that in my experience it's not when the fish are heavy with spawn that they need protecting. Rather it's immediately after they've spawned that they're most vulnerable.

Which makes me wonder if the close season we have now is any good as it doesn't help some river species like barbel very much that spawn at the end of the close season or even when its reopened.

[Guest tigger]

A stone and a half in 19 days what diet are you on the food poisoning diet ,I used to have to lose a lot in my last years competeing in TKD to make the weights but found that i put it straight back on prob due to the speed in which i lost it in the first place,Aint getting older/metabolic rate change thing a bitch!.

Your post on the Tench has inspired me to have a go soon as i have joined a lake with Tench in for the close and was going to wait a while but maybe its better to have a go before it gets chocked with weed Steve.

 

 

First stones just fluid and crap so most people can loose that in a week after that it's a bit harder and comes off more slowly. Good luck with your tenchin Steve, you can always jump in the car with Anderoo and have a stab up north