Angling Times This Week

[Dales]

IF the Bristol Avon's barbel have declined because of otters won't the one's that are left grow real big?

 

Yep and when anglers fail to catch these super sized Barbel, we can start blaming some one or something else for eating them.

[terry t shirt]

This all seems strange to me.

I have fished the upper Ouse most of my life and am yet to see an otter. I've seen mink,herons, kingfisher cormorants pike and the odd Zander and Trout but never have i seen an otter. Over the twenty odd years i've been fishing the ouse its changed.

Once it use to be full of small stuff with the odd bigger Chubb and the rare Barbel , Then The chub and barbel came into prominence now they may be declining but one thing i believe is its just a natural cycle of a river. Fish grow bigger and die small fish start over the cycle again. The one thing i really do notice at the moment Is the lower water levels and the unrestrained weed growth. Maybe the cycle is just starting over again from a time before i can remember it.

[Worms]

i would be interested in knowing what rivers you experts in otter behaviour fish, cheers denzil.

Wye, Lugg and Teme mainly. All three with otters and lots of fish. These three rivers have never really suffered a total loss of otters and there is no heavy industry to speak of on any of the three. So they have the advantage of clean water.

 

Coincidentally all three of these rivers are SSSIs for their entire lengths because of their ecological value (the Wye is a Special Area of Conservation as well). The otters on these rivers are seen (by the vast majority) as beneficial in keeping healthy fish stocks. As of course are other fish predators such as pike, herons and Kingfisher.

 

Which rivers do you fish?

[denzil]

hi worms i fish the upper ouse and it is a bit disheartening the fish haven't been wiped out completely but it isn't unusual to see specimen fish on the bank with their gills eaten very much like the barbel in AT this week. unfortunately as anglers there isn't a lot we can do to stop this happening and we will just have to suffer the consequences of the actions of a small group of people that are responsible for the restocking of extinct(just about)beasts to our rivers. in my area otter are responsible for the loss of a former British record barbel and several other double figure fish in addition to that we have found big perch on the bank in the same condition i just find it difficult to accept it if eastern Europeans where responsible we would chase them off if pollution was responsible we would trace it and stop it and ensure our precious stocks were protected. oh well i must stop there i feel like I'm going into one a bit cheers denzil

[Worms]

hi worms i fish the upper ouse and it is a bit disheartening the fish haven't been wiped out completely but it isn't unusual to see specimen fish on the bank with their gills eaten very much like the barbel in AT this week. unfortunately as anglers there isn't a lot we can do to stop this happening and we will just have to suffer the consequences of the actions of a small group of people that are responsible for the restocking of extinct(just about)beasts to our rivers. in my area otter are responsible for the loss of a former British record barbel and several other double figure fish in addition to that we have found big perch on the bank in the same condition i just find it difficult to accept it if eastern Europeans where responsible we would chase them off if pollution was responsible we would trace it and stop it and ensure our precious stocks were protected. oh well i must stop there i feel like I'm going into one a bit cheers denzil

Don't forget that the otter re-introductions on the Ouse (4 animals in 1995) were made by the Otter Trust under a n English Nature licence. This involved years of survey work and ensuring that the habitat was suitable for otters. Also, apparently angling clubs were consulted with no objections!.

 

Regarding the record barbel, it was a record because it was so big........obviously! and possibly near the end of its life anyway. The subsequent pressure that that and other fish were put under by anglers is, in my opinion, a probable reason for deaths of fish, whether by otters or physical stress from repeated captures.

 

Otters, although fast swimmers are nowhere near fast enough to catch a big healthy barbel on full throttle. Otters apparently have a top speed of 2.3m/s in water and barbel a speed of 4.4m/s (EA figures). This is why otters are useful in healthy waters. They take the sick and old fish.

 

"our precious stocks" are, in my opinion, being damaged by Human activity which may, make them easier prey for otters. If protection is required it may well be from anglers and not otters!

[lutra]

Don't forget that the otter re-introductions on the Ouse (4 animals in 1995) were made by the Otter Trust under a n English Nature licence. This involved years of survey work and ensuring that the habitat was suitable for otters. Also, apparently angling clubs were consulted with no objections!.

 

Regarding the record barbel, it was a record because it was so big........obviously! and possibly near the end of its life anyway. The subsequent pressure that that and other fish were put under by anglers is, in my opinion, a probable reason for deaths of fish, whether by otters or physical stress from repeated captures.

 

Otters, although fast swimmers are nowhere near fast enough to catch a big healthy barbel on full throttle. Otters apparently have a top speed of 2.3m/s in water and barbel a speed of 4.4m/s (EA figures). This is why otters are useful in healthy waters. They take the sick and old fish.

 

"our precious stocks" are, in my opinion, being damaged by Human activity which may, make them easier prey for otters. If protection is required it may well be from anglers and not otters!

Otters may not be as fast as most healthy fish in open water, but they can and do catch them. Even a fresh healthy salmon isn't safe.

[Worms]

Otters may not be as fast as most healthy fish in open water, but they can and do catch them. Even a fresh healthy salmon isn't safe.

I'm not denying that Lutra. I was just making the point that an otter (indeed most predators) will take the easiest prey opportunities. After all, otters are 'opportunist' predators and not specialists.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Worms

[lutra]

I'm not denying that Lutra.

Sorry if you thought I was saying you were, as i wasn't.

 

 

I was just making the point that an otter (indeed most predators) will take the easiest prey opportunities. After all, otters are 'opportunist' predators and not specialists.

Very true.

 

Regarding the record barbel, it was a record because it was so big........obviously! and possibly near the end of its life anyway.

As far as I'm aware that record barbel was still growing, which is not a sign of an old fish to me.

[Worms]

As far as I'm aware that record barbel was still growing, which is not a sign of an old fish to me.

 

I got that bit of info from Clive Branson's website

 

"Death of the UK’s record barbel

The Great Ouse barbel known as The Traveller – which holds the UK record at a weight in excess of 21 lb – was recently found dead and partially-eaten at Adams Mill. While there’s speculation about what kind of predator could have overcome and killed such a huge fish, no one can never know for certain what happened.

Though appearing healthy when last caught it was obviously a considerable age and it is just as feasible that it died, or was dying, naturally and was then found by a predator which dragged it ashore to eat.

Apart from marks where something had bitten into it under its throat, the rest of the fish appeared to be fresh and in otherwise unmarked condition. Obviously the death of the largest-ever recorded UK barbel is a sad event, but for the future at least two other fish in excess of 19 lb each are known to inhabit the area and are growing fast."

 

An assumption on my part that it was based on first hand knowledge but, you never know

[danny_b]

You guys make a lot of very valid and interesting points. There does always seem to be something wrong and killing fish somewhere along the line, and it seems to regularly change as a few of you have said, maybe it is the press trying to sell papers.

 

Or maybe they do have a point in what they say, theres always people who read the press and say well that must be right, look at all the evidence etc etc, but there is also always people on the opposite side who say that BECAUSE its in the papers it cant possibly be true, or atleast thats how they come across.

 

I agree that the otter problem is being thrown out of proportion, but it is having an effect none the less. There is more otters, and less of there staple food around, the eel, which is a corner stone species that the nature needs to keep things running properly.

 

And there is also less natural predators for the otter. which is a major problem, the same as reintroducing beavers into scotland. Without a natural predator to prey on the otter is that nothing will keep there numbers down. They will carry on increasing there numbers untill they exhaust there food supply and then die off themselves. You never hear that side of the otter story from the otter huggers out there, i bet if people started to introduce wolves to keep the otter numbers down you would see as much anti wolf stuff in the otter huggers worlds and you see anti otter stuff in the fishing world.