UK Bass Stocks Are Collapsing

[thedogs]

As you say local to John L not national, if one dips a landing net into any of the marinas local to me in around October they will catch O-groups.

 

I think BASS has wasted lots of opportunities to help make bass angling popular, I don’t believe BASS wants more members than it already has. I think it likes to be seen as elitist. But I see BASS as a tight nit bunch of fluff chucking eccentric nutters who refuse to see reason or listen to any one else’s point however valid.

I now think this body posse more of a threat to my angling freedom than any commercial fisherman.

[steve pitts]

Its got to be dodgy research as they are bound to be biased. How objective can any bass survey be from a group who have the agenda of the B.A.S.S organisation (Ie stop commercial bass fishing and implement an elite sports fishery).

 

Would you trust obesity research from Mcdonalds ?

 

Just for the record Glenn - B.A.S.S isn't attempting to stop commercial bass fishing and implement an elite sports fishery.

 

The 'O' group sampling that John carries out each year is a continuation of surveys carried out by Donovan Kelley since the 70's. I fail to see how it has to be 'dodgey' just because John and others who carry out similar work have a deep-seated interest in bass and wish to learn more about them.

 

There is absolutely no doubt that bass are doing very well in areas that have previously not been classed as good areas for bass. The Northwards shift in bass populations is still fully unexplained, but warmer sea temps appear to be the most lkely factor.

 

What is worrying, for those who are interested enough to consider these things, is that with these warmer sea temps we should be seeing an explosion in young bass throughout the English Channel and a similar increase in medium-sized fish as growth rates have also increased and especially where bass have historically been strongly represented in the South West and Solent. This just isn't happening and according to the sample work carried out in the South and West there is now a sustained drop to below the average recruitment levels

 

There is no definitive proof as to why this should be occuring, but there may be a link to the past decade or so of large-scale offshore commercial fishing for pre-spawing bass

 

We have now had a prolonged period of intensive fishing on the breeding stock and a minimum landing size set at below first maturity for male and female fish.

Bass are being squeezed hard from both ends of the age range and where they have been targetted for the longest period of time, here in the SW and English Channel, gaps are beginning to appear in year classes of fish where the reverse should be true.

 

I'm no rocket scientist, but something tells me that something ain't quite right.

Alarm bells are ringing and we either take the attitude that it's a false alarm or we at least check to see if there is no smoke without fire.

 

Cheers

Steve

[thedogs]

Just for the record Glenn - B.A.S.S isn't attempting to stop commercial bass fishing and implement an elite sports fishery.

 

The 'O' group sampling that John carries out each year is a continuation of surveys carried out by Donovan Kelley since the 70's. I fail to see how it has to be 'dodgey' just because John and others who carry out similar work have a deep-seated interest in bass and wish to learn more about them.

 

There is absolutely no doubt that bass are doing very well in areas that have previously not been classed as good areas for bass. The Northwards shift in bass populations is still fully unexplained, but warmer sea temps appear to be the most lkely factor.

 

What is worrying, for those who are interested enough to consider these things, is that with these warmer sea temps we should be seeing an explosion in young bass throughout the English Channel and a similar increase in medium-sized fish as growth rates have also increased and especially where bass have historically been strongly represented in the South West and Solent. This just isn't happening and according to the sample work carried out in the South and West there is now a sustained drop to below the average recruitment levels

 

There is no definitive proof as to why this should be occuring, but there may be a link to the past decade or so of large-scale offshore commercial fishing for pre-spawing bass

 

We have now had a prolonged period of intensive fishing on the breeding stock and a minimum landing size set at below first maturity for male and female fish.

Bass are being squeezed hard from both ends of the age range and where they have been targetted for the longest period of time, here in the SW and English Channel, gaps are beginning to appear in year classes of fish where the reverse should be true.

 

I'm no rocket scientist, but something tells me that something ain't quite right.

Alarm bells are ringing and we either take the attitude that it's a false alarm or we at least check to see if there is no smoke without fire.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

Bass hear in the Thames Estuary don’t seem to be in decline, I would guess that the whole area is now an nursery area as schoolies can be caught right from the inner most reaches and out 30 miles.

Now with several good year class at and above the mls there are also more better fish than previous years.

Last year it wasn’t until mid July that I caught a bass over 36cm, this year I have lost count of the fish over 45cm I have caught. Best fish so far 62cm, not massive but satisfying.

[steve pitts]

Bass hear in the Thames Estuary don’t seem to be in decline, I would guess that the whole area is now an nursery area as schoolies can be caught right from the inner most reaches and out 30 miles.

Now with several good year class at and above the mls there are also more better fish than previous years.

Last year it wasn’t until mid July that I caught a bass over 36cm, this year I have lost count of the fish over 45cm I have caught. Best fish so far 62cm, not massive but satisfying.

 

Good to hear you're catching lots of bass Sam.

Sounds very much like, as you say, the Thames and other estuaries local to you are nursery areas - all be it not on the 'official' bass nursery area list.

 

Do you think that the Thames, Blackwater etc. should be designated as nursery areas and more to the point, do you think that would mean more of these fish coming through would fill the gap in the mid-sized range that appear to be missing at the present time?

 

Cheers

Steve

[H.A.]

The problems we are observing are 'variant populations' of fishes which appear to show sustainable biomass.

What CEFAS and others are doing is evaluating the potency of populations and in some cases populations (bass and cod, for instance) show almost an explosion of one or two year classes.

 

A mature and healthy population shows strength and numbers across many age-groups.

Bass in the southern CEFAS areas show only a large biomass of predominantly slow-growing, and still mainly immature fish (20 - 40cm).

 

A bulge in a fast growing Gadidae species also frequently does not indicate a healthy, non-impacted population. These 'bulges' in unstable populations, even during hard fished years, used to occur at pretty regular intervals of 3 - 7 years. The last 'bulge' of cod aged 1 - 3 years we had in Area VIId (Central & E. English Channel) was almost exactly 20 years ago (1986 - 1989).

 

Such a narrow population bulge of immature codling is indicated now (2007-8) in this area.

 

Let Wurz, Paul Joy and his merry clan get to grips with these cod and you probably won't see a healthy-looking year class for another 20 years at least.

 

That is exactly why quota limitations are being retained and why low-impact fishing methods are being encouraged.

 

When Mr Joy and his Kent boys (Nu(f)ttee?) go out and catch their years quota in 6 weeks, it isn't a case of wall-to-wall cod in the Channel; it is a case of a strong breeding year JUST becoming established, with prescribed limitations on its exploitation.

 

Thank God fer that!

 

[wurzel]

Let Wurz, Paul Joy and his merry clan get to grips with these cod and you probably won't see a healthy-looking year class for another 20 years at least.

 

 

How do you work that out Ha? Where did the present good year classes come from? why shouldn't they produce another good year class if what ever triggered the present brood happens again?

 

Do you think there is a link between the increase in O groups of cod and a decrease in O groups of bass?

[Leon Roskilly]

How do you work that out Ha? Where did the present good year classes come from? why shouldn't they produce another good year class if what ever triggered the present brood happens again?

 

Do you think there is a link between the increase in O groups of cod and a decrease in O groups of bass?

 

When there is a lot of cod breeding, it isn't critical to have perfect breeding conditions.

 

But even though relatively few cod can theoritically produce mind-boggling numbers of young, when the spawning stock biomass is small they can only produce the goods when conditions are darn near perfect.

 

1996 was such a year, and so was 2005.

 

The 1996 year class was heavily fished as soon as a proportion of the young fish were legal size (35cm, way below maturity), and almost all had gone before those huge numbers of fish had reached breeding size.

 

The 2005 year class are the codling (not cod!) that we are seeing so many of now, and they won't be breeding themselves until 2010.

 

It's not the number of cod(ling) that are caught that is important, it is the number of cod that are breeding that, if numerous enough, will produce follow on year classes, even when conditions are not ideal.

 

The reason ICES (and others with an eye to the future) wants those cod(ling) protected, even though it is hard not to catch them, is to start to expand the spawning stock biomass in 2010 and maybe break out of that vicious circle of overfishing of juveniles with many dangerous years between decent spawnings.

 

It (would be criminal to allow what happened to the 1996 year class to happen again to the 2005 year class)

 

The cod did well in 2005, but as far as I am aware, 2006 and 2007 were not good.

 

Whereas bass are missing from the 2005,2006 and 2007 years (most of the 'good' bass being caught now are the 2002 and 2004 year classes which are currently being fished down as boats fill their boots on non-quota fish as a result of lack of quota for other commercial stocks (due to poor breeding populations of those species).

 

(Maybe the high oil prices have come just at the right time!)

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that cod breed in the North Sea, and the bass mostly down in the South-West where conditions are quite different.

Edited June 15, 2008 by Leon Roskilly

[Steve Coppolo]

Whereas bass are missing from the 2005,2006 and 2007 years

 

Are you sure Leon? Who told you that? Or where did you read it? From what I've seen, (not read, or heard), that most certainly isn't the case.

 

(most of the 'good' bass being caught now are the 2002 and 2004 year classes

 

What about the 2003 year class? Why disregard the year class that was even more successful than the 2002? Could it be something you were told, or something you read?

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that cod breed in the North Sea, and the bass mostly down in the South-West where conditions are quite different.

 

What? I'm sure you could post a link to the place where you read that, but are you sure it is correct? I don't think so.

[Steve Coppolo]

Do you think that the Thames, Blackwater etc. should be designated as nursery areas and more to the point, do you think that would mean more of these fish coming through would fill the gap in the mid-sized range that appear to be missing at the present time?

 

Cheers

Steve

 

I know you asked the question of Sam, Steve, but I'd like to give an answer to your question too if you don't mind because it's something I feel quite strongly about.

 

I most certainly would NOT like to see the above areas designated as nursery areas. The stocks of juvenile bass in those areas are thriving, despite not being "protected" by the tag of nursery area given to to the Thames and Blackwater. As you know, the nursery area in the Blackwater is about 1/4 mile square, (not enough to make a difference to anything especially since the power station shut down), and it is the only one we have in this area. Yet the whole area is stuffed with small bass. Even better, they are getting bigger every year. Commercial fishermen can't catch them all and we are just starting to see an upturn in the quality of our sport after a 5 year lull. Personally, I don't want any interfering busy body, who is arrogant enough to think that calling an area a nursery area will miraculously enhance the bass stocks, to stop me from enjoying the good sport we now have to look forward to over at least the next 6 years and probably beyond. There may be problems down in the SW at the moment, and it may be down to the winter pair trawl fishery that has been going on fopr the last 20 odd years. However, our government don't have the powers to address that particular problem, so what's the point of aiming for achievable, but inefective, measures like nursery areas? It's a form of self punishment and that's about all.

[wurzel]

When there is a lot of cod breeding, it isn't critical to have perfect breeding conditions.

 

But even though relatively few cod can theoritically produce mind-boggling numbers of young, when the spawning stock biomass is small they can only produce the goods when conditions are darn near perfect.

 

1996 was such a year, and so was 2005.

 

The 1996 year class was heavily fished as soon as a proportion of the young fish were legal size (35cm, way below maturity), and almost all had gone before those huge numbers of fish had reached breeding size.

 

The 2005 year class are the codling (not cod!) that we are seeing so many of now, and they won't be breeding themselves until 2010.

 

It's not the number of cod(ling) that are caught that is important, it is the number of cod that are breeding that, if numerous enough, will produce follow on year classes, even when conditions are not ideal.

 

The reason ICES (and others with an eye to the future) wants those cod(ling) protected, even though it is hard not to catch them, is to start to expand the spawning stock biomass in 2010 and maybe break out of that vicious circle of overfishing of juveniles with many dangerous years between decent spawnings.

 

It (would be criminal to allow what happened to the 1996 year class to happen again to the 2005 year class)

 

The cod did well in 2005, but as far as I am aware, 2006 and 2007 were not good.

 

Whereas bass are missing from the 2005,2006 and 2007 years (most of the 'good' bass being caught now are the 2002 and 2004 year classes which are currently being fished down as boats fill their boots on non-quota fish as a result of lack of quota for other commercial stocks (due to poor breeding populations of those species).

 

(Maybe the high oil prices have come just at the right time!)

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that cod breed in the North Sea, and the bass mostly down in the South-West where conditions are quite different.

 

Thats the therory and perseption Leon but in real life it just does not seem to work like that.

 

What are "darn near perfect conditions"?

 

I can assure you that the lack of quota for other commercial stocks has nothing to do with poor breeding populations of those species.