Oh my God.

[flapper]

An angler goes on holiday and spends a day fishing off the beach.

 

At some point in the day a shoal of 5,000 fish swims past and he catches 2 fish from the shoal.

 

 

Next year he does the same, the same shoal comes past he again catches 2 of them.

 

But this time from a shoal of just 2,000 fish.

 

 

 

The following year the shoal has been whitled down to just 500, but he catches 3 fish.

 

 

Next year, only 50 fish swim past and he catches 4 of them.

 

 

In the evening he meets a scientist in the pub who tries to tell him that there's less fish out there.

 

But he knows better, he caught more last year than the two previous years, and this year has been the best yet.

 

 

The fishing has never been so good!

 

 

 

It's not the number of fish being caught that tells the story of what's left beneath the waves.

 

 

Strangely fisheries that are about to collapse often offer better fishing as the remaining fish shoal tighter in a few places, rather than evenly available across a wide area, and are more vulnerable to knowledgeable skippers with increasingly efficient electronic fish-finding gizmos and gear at their disposal.

 

 

Catches maintained and even increasing catches aren't always indicitive of a sustainable or recovering fishery.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately it's their skill at doing that that can mask the problem until it becomes critical.

I see what your saying Leon, but what you have got to remember is that fish tend to swim around quite a bit. Commercial fishing isn’t just about turning on your electronic equipment and shooting your net. Like I said fish do swim, they have patterns on where they go and when. Always unreliable but I would say that commercial fishermen have a much better idea where and when those fish are going to turn up. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe that in this wonderful technological world we live in that they have invented anything yet for finding fish? Detecting them yes, but finding them no?

Looking at reports from Peterhead (on the internet) there are boats (only 60ft 70ft in length), landing that many boxes of fish that they over capacitate their fish room and have to have boxes on deck. Is this because of the equipment they have is much better today than it was and is helping them become better fishermen? Or is it because the commercial fishermen was correct for all those years when they where saying that there was more fish than what the scientists where saying? I don’t know Leon, do you?

Flapper.

[Leon Roskilly]

Or is it because the commercial fishermen was correct for all those years when they where saying that there was more fish than what the scientists where saying? I don’t know Leon, do you?

 

 

No, I don't know either.

 

But when someone appeals for the science to be ignored simply because fishermen are catching plenty, warning bells should start ringing.

 

 

In 1968 record numbers of fish were being caught from the Grand Banks, and it was believed/argued that the record catches that year showed that the fishery was healthy.

 

 

The record catches of that year are now known as 'the killer spike'.

[flapper]

No, I don't know either.

 

But when someone appeals for the science to be ignored simply because fishermen are catching plenty, warning bells should start ringing.

 

 

In 1968 record numbers of fish were being caught from the Grand Banks, and it was believed/argued that the record catches that year showed that the fishery was healthy.

 

 

The record catches of that year are now known as 'the killer spike'.

There’s one thing for certain Leon and that is that one day someone (be it scientist or commercial fisherman) is going to say, “I told you so”

Flapper.

[Steve Coppolo]

According the Leon's theory, the fish stocks must have been close to collapse during the good old 60's and 70's. You know, the years that people keep using as a bench mark as to how the fishing should be today. Beach anglers were catching CWT's of cod. If only they knew that they were catching the last few.

 

Another way of looking at it is, the fish stocks where Leon fishes must be very healthy today, because he hardly ever catches anything.

 

What a load of complete cobblers from someone who speaks to politicians on our behalf.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Steve Coppolo

[Steve Coppolo]

In 1968 record numbers of fish were being caught from the Grand Banks, and it was believed/argued that the record catches that year showed that the fishery was healthy.

 

They were all ganging up ready to f%ck off somewhere else, like Starlings, that's why.

 

See, this talking bolIocks malarky is easy.

[big_cod]

Where is this real problem that people are diverting from? From what you say Whitby is finished as a fishing port so no problem there Scarborough might solder on for a few years but I doubt it will be allowed to flourish and sooner or later go the same way.

 

It's plain for me to see exactly what defra are up to as the same format was used first on the big boats then on the under tens and now anglers. I wonder how many times I've heard " we need to collect accurate data to properly access how to best manage the resource" and “we have your best interests at hart, honest” So in the near future there will be more scientists and defra officials than you can shake a gaff at all clambering over them selves to collect data from rsa, along with the usual round of consultations and not forgetting plenty of meetings, the normal time period they eek it out for is about 5 years.

At the first opportunity some body needs to tell them to cut the crap and just tell you what the predetermined out come is going to be, if any defra official says he does not know, he's lying.

 

Peter its sad day whitby as fishing port has closed it doors talking to one of the under 10 lads last night they arent sure whats going to happen with the shellfish landing there is a coop with the shellfish tanks everything is up in air at the moment you are right when defra get rid of most of the commercial fishermen they will need somebody else to mangage .

 

Go back 20 years ago and there was 18 trawlers here at whitby they were still enjoying a very good fishing here its now down to 4 looking like 3 i honestly dont think if we went back to 18 boats and lifted all the quotas it wouldnt be long before you would have a disaster in no time the fishing couldnt sustain 18 boats in real terms there isnt the fish that there was 20 years ago before christmas one of the boats was have a banaza here the fish were loaded with sandeels perfect to catch in trawl those sandeels were very heavily concentrated between 2-4 mile area and so were the fish where there is grub fish will gather like i said he was doing very well 18 boats there and it would have cleaned up in no time things have improved in the last 4 or 5 years that has to be down to less effort what you cant work out is why some bits of ground out there there still isnt a fry on fish wont gather there it has to be damage to bottom why this is there is no other explanation one of gillnetters last week had 6 fleets down for 3 codling and 2 blegs i know there is seals which are torturing them but that is a bit worrying cod do tend to come off the bottom more times than people think if the feed is marking 6 fathom off the bottom often the fish are up with them.

 

All in all it is a very sad day with the fish quay closing down i lumped on there when i was in my early teens many days loading many hundreds of boxes of fish onto wagons those days are well gone quotas in recent years have crippled the commercial fishermen the whole setup is mad what quota is out there should go to people who are actually fishing not some comodity trader makeing money out of quota renting but you have to remember it was fishermen who started this practice this has caused massive problems that is one of the main reasons boats are the going to wall all the wrong people with quota in there possession talking to one of the trawler lads yesterday and he said they were having to pay £12 a stone to lease cod quota madness now that is allmost certainly going to cause discards at that price if it aint box lenth it goes back over the side so you have to catch twice as much fish as your quota allows to make it viable and chuck half back now that is wrong he said they couldnt do it with fuel prices etc it now spells the end of the road a hornets nest some commercial fishermen still make a big liveing but its all down to who has what quota.

 

paul.

Edited February 16, 2011 by big_cod

[barry luxton]

Whats being discussed at the mo is called the end game, the likes of clover makes a healthy living out of it and will continue to do so. The eu have made an industry out of it. Yet all appear to want the eu to carry on with a revamped cfp. It's the blokes who have run this management industry that needs looking at, top down, not bottom up, no doubt at a massive cost. And even with this failed industry the likes of the trust want to drag the profitable healthy, non decimating rsa into it. Absolutly bonkers.

 

The likes of defra and it's ngo's that are doing what they can to heap management onto the rsa and the trust are rubbing their hands with glee. Whats all these reference areas about, perhaps someone can elighten us all. Management creep?