Bream at night

[Kappa]

For the record, I don't think i disagreed with anything Budgie, Wol Gaunt and Andy Nellist said in the link. I think that might just be your "small minded, miserable ****wit" way of seeing it or hope that others see it Dick.

 

I think it is fairly clear actually:

 

Thanks for that link anderoo some good stuff there.

 

No i wouldn't call it good stuff. Unsubstantiated as i suspected it would be really.

 

For the record I'm sure you are a very experienced bream angler etc etc, the problem is you're attitude. Maybe you aren't a complete and total ****wit, but you do a very good job of acting like one in almost every post.

 

Hugs and kisses,

 

Dickie-poos

Edited April 1, 2011 by Richard Capper

[lutra]

I think it is fairly clear actually:

 

 

 

 

 

For the record I'm sure you are a very experienced bream angler etc etc, the problem is you're attitude. Maybe you aren't a complete and total ****wit, but you do a very good job of acting like one in almost every post.

 

Hugs and kisses,

 

Dickie-poos

OK SORRY, maybe i should have made it more clear. I was referring to bolt rig hook lengths side of it, not the link as a whole. I did think that is what this thread was about.

[lutra]

Actually i find what Warren had to say in the link about adding resistance ("Good trick if your getting ify bites is to give em more resistance, the more you give em the better the bites. Its like they dont wanna let it go. ")quite interesting. Certainly makes a lot more sense than playing around with bolt rigs with long drop bobbins to me and maybe its a similar reason why I've found shortening the hook length to 3" gives more positive bites.

[Dick Dastardly]

Over the years I think I can safely say that the change in my opinions on big bream fishing are the most dramatic of all my fishing!

 

Back in the 80's I was sold on free running ledger rigs with 3'-4' hook lengths (note feet not inches!) I mainly fished bread flake as bait. I then started using worm baits more and had problems (not so much with the bream but unintentional tench) with deep hooking so swapped over to shorter 18" (ish) hook lengths.As this did not seem to bother the bream It stuck with it for worm and corn baits for a long time. I only fished a few times with bread flake after that but all ways (out of habit) returned to the long hook lengths.

 

My first experience with short hook lengths (6"-10") was at Queenford where due to the small baits I was using (caster) my rigs were more like a Northern bream match anglers ie small hooks light (3-4lb) hook lengths often on double hook rigs with one of them fished (well meant to be!) off bottom.

 

Also I had started to notice that when I was distracted (like sorting out a fish on another rod) that they would happily "churn" the reel and hook them selves on my still free running,long drop,light bobbin set up.

 

Due to this I started my move towards short hook link bolt rig set ups.I based the length of the hook length on the distance I thought a bream would move as it "righted" its self after picking the bait up. But changing the successful methods of the past was hard!

 

I'm now quite happy that bolt rigs are the most efficient way to rig up as it increases the odds of hooking any pick ups dramatically.However its this exact length business I'm struggling with. Ive allways based my "how bream feed" thoughts on the times Ive seen them in both real life (from above and below the water) hoovering up bait. Trouble is Ive seen two different types of feeding now from both big and small bream.......and to add more doubt the "big bream" Ive witnessed are not really the same as the SB/LSD bream I'm now concentrating on!

 

The two main styles are a heads down and stay down type "hoovering" with "righting" happening only irregularly and "browsing" where they are picking up individual items and the righting immediately after each item.Now initially the ultra short (3"-6") would seem best to cover both............................but I'm now having doubts as some have mentioned "sucking" baits in. I have never seen this but it would obviously mean that the short hook link could stop the bait even getting into the mouth! I suppose (unless others can convince me different?) I really need to ignore these "sucking" stories as Ive never seen it and stick by my own observations.

 

All that said though even though I want to catch and accept that some of these newer tactics are superior I am a bit loathe for my bream fishing to become "scaled down carping" like my tench fishing has! Daft I know but I don't really want to fish bolt rigs,buzzers and boilies for everything as its the diversity in methods I enjoy as much as the diversity in species! But needs must.............

 

Lastly can I pick up on one thing that Brian has raised.......long drops and liners!

 

The most frustrating thing Ive found on any of the "bream" discussions is this business of long drop indicators and line bites. Ive tried to explain my views several times (Den being the best example!) and as no one seems to get it it must be the way I'm explaining it! I will try one more time! (please if its me missing the point you guys are making bear with me and try and explain to me!)

 

Long drops are simply to allow you to differentiate between line bites and proper bites so you don't strike at liners! Striking at them is not only pointless but I believe can spook fish. That's the only reason as I just don't understand how you can tell the difference between a bite and a line bite if your indicator can only move a foot or so? Or do you guys just simply set up to ensure you dont get any line bites?

[lutra]

Over the years I think I can safely say that the change in my opinions on big bream fishing are the most dramatic of all my fishing!

 

Back in the 80's I was sold on free running ledger rigs with 3'-4' hook lengths (note feet not inches!) I mainly fished bread flake as bait. I then started using worm baits more and had problems (not so much with the bream but unintentional tench) with deep hooking so swapped over to shorter 18" (ish) hook lengths.As this did not seem to bother the bream It stuck with it for worm and corn baits for a long time. I only fished a few times with bread flake after that but all ways (out of habit) returned to the long hook lengths.

 

My first experience with short hook lengths (6"-10") was at Queenford where due to the small baits I was using (caster) my rigs were more like a Northern bream match anglers ie small hooks light (3-4lb) hook lengths often on double hook rigs with one of them fished (well meant to be!) off bottom.

 

Also I had started to notice that when I was distracted (like sorting out a fish on another rod) that they would happily "churn" the reel and hook them selves on my still free running,long drop,light bobbin set up.

 

Due to this I started my move towards short hook link bolt rig set ups.I based the length of the hook length on the distance I thought a bream would move as it "righted" its self after picking the bait up. But changing the successful methods of the past was hard!

 

I'm now quite happy that bolt rigs are the most efficient way to rig up as it increases the odds of hooking any pick ups dramatically.However its this exact length business I'm struggling with. Ive allways based my "how bream feed" thoughts on the times Ive seen them in both real life (from above and below the water) hoovering up bait. Trouble is Ive seen two different types of feeding now from both big and small bream.......and to add more doubt the "big bream" Ive witnessed are not really the same as the SB/LSD bream I'm now concentrating on!

 

The two main styles are a heads down and stay down type "hoovering" with "righting" happening only irregularly and "browsing" where they are picking up individual items and the righting immediately after each item.Now initially the ultra short (3"-6") would seem best to cover both............................but I'm now having doubts as some have mentioned "sucking" baits in. I have never seen this but it would obviously mean that the short hook link could stop the bait even getting into the mouth! I suppose (unless others can convince me different?) I really need to ignore these "sucking" stories as Ive never seen it and stick by my own observations.

 

All that said though even though I want to catch and accept that some of these newer tactics are superior I am a bit loathe for my bream fishing to become "scaled down carping" like my tench fishing has! Daft I know but I don't really want to fish bolt rigs,buzzers and boilies for everything as its the diversity in methods I enjoy as much as the diversity in species! But needs must.............

 

Lastly can I pick up on one thing that Brian has raised.......long drops and liners!

 

The most frustrating thing Ive found on any of the "bream" discussions is this business of long drop indicators and line bites. Ive tried to explain my views several times (Den being the best example!) and as no one seems to get it it must be the way I'm explaining it! I will try one more time! (please if its me missing the point you guys are making bear with me and try and explain to me!)

 

Long drops are simply to allow you to differentiate between line bites and proper bites so you don't strike at liners! Striking at them is not only pointless but I believe can spook fish. That's the only reason as I just don't understand how you can tell the difference between a bite and a line bite if your indicator can only move a foot or so? Or do you guys just simply set up to ensure you dont get any line bites?

Think i came down a very similar road on my way to using bolt rigs and all the other carpy stuff for bream Budgie (and wouldn't cry if i had to stop using it). Just didn't take me long to shorten my hook length. A few trips fishing for good numbers of 9-12lbers fishing next to a mate using a 3" hook length and getting screaming runs to lift into. All i would get with my longer hook lengths was my bobbins bouncing around and drop backs, which would leave me not knowing when to strike or what was going on.

 

Can't see how a long drop bobbin would help with all that. A screaming run is a screaming run on any bobbin. If anything when a shorter bobbin hits the top (mine are set to start at the top which gives me about 18" of drop back to look for) it will put a bit of adding resistance on the fish as the line runs through the bobbin......... Maybe as Warren said it all helps.

 

I admit I've never used a long drop bobbin or caught 18lb bream, but on waters with very low numbers of bream up to 15lb for me, it all still worked the same with that 3" hook length. Good positive runs and your not left scratching your head about when to strike.

[Dick Dastardly]

Can't see how a long drop bobbin would help with all that. A screaming run is a screaming run on any bobbin.

 

No it wouldn't help at all but like I keep saying that's not why they are used!

 

You were well lucky learning about short hook lengths from watching your mate! Its definitely the easiest way to learn and above all have confidence in something new isn't it! Ive learned several things like that and ditching the old ways after seeing such is easy compared with when your still experimenting and trying to get confidence in something new.I wish I could sit next to some one who is using fake baits and get my arse whooped as it would solve the hang up I still have there for bream! Mad especially as I know others catch plenty on them! Why is it I cant just accept it and need to see it to be happy?

[poledark]

Budgie, it is quite simple to tell the difference. It does not matter how much, or how short, the drops are. If it is a liner then it will tighten and then slip off the fish. If it is a hooked fish, then it will keep going.

 

Not bream I know, but I have watched carp and tench responding to tight lines and slack lines, and for what it is worth, the tight line just slips off the fish, but the slack line starts to alarm the fish after a foot or so. Limited test, done very close in the margin, but enough to put me off long drops.

 

Den

[Dick Dastardly]

Budgie, it is quite simple to tell the difference. It does not matter how much, or how short, the drops are. If it is a liner then it will tighten and then slip off the fish. If it is a hooked fish, then it will keep going.

 

Not bream I know, but I have watched carp and tench responding to tight lines and slack lines, and for what it is worth, the tight line just slips off the fish, but the slack line starts to alarm the fish after a foot or so. Limited test, done very close in the margin, but enough to put me off long drops.

 

Den

 

 

Yes but if my bobbin can only move (for example) a foot how do I know that its going to keep going or if its going to tighten and slip off because surely during this first (for example) 12" of movement it will be the same Den?

 

Interesting about your observations of carp and tench. Ive not seen breams reactions to line in the same detail either but the carp Ive watched (not seen tench either) we're not that bothered by tight lines (despite all the hype about tight lines spooking them in the 90's) as long as they could see them/saw them before bumping into them.I now wish I had taken the opportunity at these times to see their reaction to slack lines but didn't so can only go on your observations.

 

I presume that your concern re long drops is that it gives them more time to feel the line being in contact with them? I say this as you don't have to have a slack line to fish a long drop and my observations showed that even though the carp weren't scared by the lines they could see they didn't want any prolonged contact with it.

[lutra]

No it wouldn't help at all but like I keep saying that's not why they are used!

 

You were well lucky learning about short hook lengths from watching your mate! Its definitely the easiest way to learn and above all have confidence in something new isn't it! Ive learned several things like that and ditching the old ways after seeing such is easy compared with when your still experimenting and trying to get confidence in something new.I wish I could sit next to some one who is using fake baits and get my arse whooped as it would solve the hang up I still have there for bream! Mad especially as I know others catch plenty on them! Why is it I cant just accept it and need to see it to be happy?

Yep i have been lucky to have older bream fishing and match fishing mates that have shown me the ropes first hand and i suppose i should be thankful for all the painful lessons I've had.

 

Maybe some older bream feeder fishing ways don't apply to modern ones and today's big bream, but some always will for me. Painful lessons in avoiding line bites and how to feed a swim should and did come way back on day one of bream fishing for me and there has been plenty of top up lessons since. Them lessons can really hurt. Good luck to anyone armed with spod who tries to skip that class.

[tiddlertamer]

I wonder if they will they will come back thinking 1+1=6

 

Time on the bank catching fish, testing what works, what helps and what doesn't, seems a much better bet than talking and reading garbage on here then making misinterpretations.

 

Go and dream about your long bobbins a bit more Anderoo.

 

What a thourougly unpleasant way to talk to a fellow Anglers Net user.

 

May your bites be line bites...